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Girton Road sydenenham, You only get two hours free parking if the machine works
icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 10:31
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I parked in Girton road car park se26 on the 5th August at around 16.10.
There is one ticket machine which had an out of order sign on. I was aware of the procedure that although this is a car park which is free for two hours, you still have to get a ticket.
I chose to park in the car park for about twenty minutes and on return I had a parking ticket.
I asked the parking warden who was busy ticketing another vehicle why I had a ticket as it was free for two hours and he replied "it is only free if the ticket machine is working".
If I appeal am I likely to win this?
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post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 10:31
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icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 10:45
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These were taken by a friend and are not as good as I wanted them to be.
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icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 10:57
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It is a car park which has free street parking all around so it is almost always empty. Maybe this is what they do to find a reason to build on the land. I can see now I should have called to get my free 2 hours but I would appreciate any advice to see if it is worth appealing against because to me it does seem unfair.
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Neil B
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 11:28
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All the signs could be interpreted to mean there's no point phoning Ringo for 2 hours free;
specifically says you need a ticket from the machine.
'No coins' implies you phone Ringo only if you need to pay.

Maybe.

The Parking Places Order will be useful.

---
Try Ringo for 2 hours free?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 13:33
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 12:28) *
All the signs could be interpreted to mean there's no point phoning Ringo for 2 hours free;
specifically says you need a ticket from the machine.
'No coins' implies you phone Ringo only if you need to pay.

Maybe.

The Parking Places Order will be useful.

---
Try Ringo for 2 hours free?


Di I apply to Lewisham council for a copy of the parking order
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 14:56
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OP---you need the core order because the following Notice is not much help:-

London Borough of Lewisham

GIRTON ROAD CAR PARK – INTRODUCTION OF PARKING CHARGES
THE LEWISHAM (OFF STREET) (PARKING PLACES) (AMENDMENT NO. -) TRAFFIC ORDER 1. NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that Lewisham Borough Council propose to make the above-mentioned Order under the provisions of section 32 and 35 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, as amended.
2. The general effect of the Order would be to:-

(a) introduce charges for leaving motor vehicles for more than 2 hours, between 8am and 6.30pm on Mondays to Saturdays inclusive in the Girton Road Car Park, SE26; and

(b) provide that the charges referred to in sub-paragraph (a) above:

(i) would apply to all motor vehicles other than a vehicle displaying a disabled persons’ ‘blue badge’ parking permit; and

(ii) would be zero pounds (free) for up to 2 hours, £1.40 for up to 3 hours and £5 for more than three hours on any one day.

3. Further information may be obtained by emailing Transport Policy & Development at parkingdesign@lewisham.gov.uk

4. The Order and other documents giving more detailed particulars of the Order can be inspected during normal office hours on Mondays to Fridays at the office of Lewisham Transport Policy & Development, 4th Floor Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, London SE6 4RU.

5. Any objection or other representations relating to the proposed Order must be made in writing and all objections must specify the grounds on which they are made and must be emailed to: parkingdesign@lewisham.gov.uk or posted to Lewisham Transport Policy & Development, 4th Floor Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, London SE6 4RU, quoting reference ‘Girton Road Car Park Charging’ to arrive not later than 21 days from the date of publication of this notice. Any objection may be communicated to other persons who may be affected.

Dated: 8th March 2019

S. MOSS

Service Group Manager, Highways and Transport

4th Floor Laurence House, 1 Catford Road, London SE6 4RU

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 14:57
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icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 15:09
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It says there in point 4 that I can inspect it. Will I be able to get a copy?
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Mad Mick V
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 15:53
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See if they can e-mail you a copy--yes you can ask to inspect it but it won't be much use unless there is a copy for us to ponder.

Essentially you are looking for Order Articles on the free parking period, what happens if there is a machine out of order and whether it notes that a free parking period can be facilitated by the RingGo service.

Does the car park have other payment machines?

Lastly, can you get a photo of the terms and conditions stated on the car park Noticeboard?

Mick
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icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 17:17
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 16:53) *
See if they can e-mail you a copy--yes you can ask to inspect it but it won't be much use unless there is a copy for us to ponder.

Essentially you are looking for Order Articles on the free parking period, what happens if there is a machine out of order and whether it notes that a free parking period can be facilitated by the RingGo service.

Does the car park have other payment machines?

Lastly, can you get a photo of the terms and conditions stated on the car park Noticeboard?

Mick


It is the only machine in the car park.
I will take a photo early next week of the noticeboard and also phone Lewisham council for the parking order.

Thanks
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stamfordman
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 17:31
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Just to note that I checked on Ringgo and you can book a free 2 hour session but you do get hit for a 20p 'convenience' fee.

Actually the online site says you get charged 21p - 1p for parking - this may be a glitch.
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icantbelieveit
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 19:39
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 18:31) *
Just to note that I checked on Ringgo and you can book a free 2 hour session but you do get hit for a 20p 'convenience' fee.

Actually the online site says you get charged 21p - 1p for parking - this may be a glitch.



"(ii) would be zero pounds (free) for up to 2 hours, £1.40 for up to 3 hours and £5 for more than three hours on any one day. "

So it not free at all.
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cp8759
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 21:47
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QUOTE (icantbelieveit @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 11:31) *
... replied "it is only free if the ticket machine is working".

I very much doubt the car park order says that rolleyes.gif

But we must see the order to give reliable advice, email the council and ask for a copy.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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icantbelieveit
post Wed, 28 Aug 2019 - 12:43
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https://ibb.co/3z6kmrf
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This is the parking order I just got sent by email.
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icantbelieveit
post Wed, 28 Aug 2019 - 13:03
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I have appealed already and it has been rejected. I am in the process of putting the appeal letter up.
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Mad Mick V
post Wed, 28 Aug 2019 - 13:04
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Of little use, we need to see the core order the Lewisham (Off Street) (Parking Places) Order 2011.

Mick
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icantbelieveit
post Wed, 28 Aug 2019 - 13:30
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https://ibb.co/BjYhNbT

https://ibb.co/zVCh1c6

Due to running out of time and still waiting for the parking order I had to make a quick appeal.

QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Wed, 28 Aug 2019 - 14:04) *
Of little use, we need to see the core order the Lewisham (Off Street) (Parking Places) Order 2011.

Mick


I have emailed them again asking for the core order. I did ask them for that originally.
I'm not in the area till Monday when I could go to Catford town hall. Will they give me a copy then?
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icantbelieveit
post Wed, 28 Aug 2019 - 14:55
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They just emailed me with the order.
Girton road is not mentioned as it is only been a non free car park for a few months.
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cp8759
post Thu, 29 Aug 2019 - 14:17
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The order doesn't say anything about a pay & display ticket needing to be displayed, the order simply says you must pay the relevant parking charge. While failure to display a ticket or register via ringo creates a prima facie assumption that the charge hasn't been paid (see article 5), that is a rebuttable presumption. Therefore if you can show that you didn't exceed the two hour maximum stay limit which is payment of £0 entitled you to, the contravention did not occur.

Unfortunately the likelihood of council officers understanding this is virtually zero, so this was always going to end up at the tribunal.

So, what evidence do you have that you were there for less than two hours?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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icantbelieveit
post Fri, 30 Aug 2019 - 09:28
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I have no way of proving how long I was in the car park.
Is it worth continuing with this or should I just pay the £30?
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hcandersen
post Fri, 30 Aug 2019 - 10:04
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Therefore if you can show that you didn't exceed the two hour maximum stay limit which is payment of £0 entitled you to, the contravention did not occur.

...a limit which, according to the council's evidence, has no legal basis i.e. the car park is not specified in the Schedule.

And WTF are 'Numeric's'?

You just cannot get the staff.

OP, if you know you were there for less than (hopefully much less than) 2 hours then IMO carry on.

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