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Bus gate contraventions, 6 in 6 days - 34j Penalties, Photos and dash cam footage attached
CCorleone
post Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 19:43
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Bus gate penalty notice
Bus gate penalty pg 2
Bus gate penalty notice page 3
Bus gate penalty page 4

Dropbox DashCam of bus gate

Evening all.
I’m hoping to get some good advice, that can be pay it or appeal it.
So, it seems I’ve got 6 bus gate penalties for 6 consecutive days wacko.gif

I’ll try and give as much info as I can.
I’ve uploaded the images of one in the above links.

So my partner and I relocated to York in May (2019)
I Started work at Tangerine factory on Low Poppleton Lane on Friday 26th July (2019)
One week straight driving through a damn bus gate,


There are signs before and marked as bus lane cameras.
Bus gate isn’t signed apart from on the road as you drive over it, which immediately right after the gate is my new place of employment.
I stupidly believed there would be a bus lane further up, not knowing about bus gates! I was taking a chance and six days straight absolutely is killing me! Moved from down south oop north and never driven the area previously to starting work and my Sat Nav system took me that way.

Once the first penalty arrived on the door, I said to my partner “that’s the only way I can get through”

The bus gate sits on a bend and I’m turning right almost as I drive though it.

“Big painted large words on the road saying bus gate”

Being new to the area and starting a new job, I use my Sat Nav and my Sat Nav system didn’t recognise the restriction.

What are the chances of getting them reduced to one? Or none? I feel like I want to put my own no entry ⛔️ post up next to it! Or a sign warning staff they cannot go that way.
I did take a video today driving it but stopping and immediately passes a motorbike.

All info greatly appreciated, good or bad. Please Be kind it’s my first 6 apparent driving offences

Thanks in advance

Edit* The car is registered in my partners name and I’m a named driver on the insurance.

This post has been edited by CCorleone: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 00:04
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post Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 19:43
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 21:20
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Look carefully at the PCN it should tell you that you have the right to view the CCTV or request stills taken from it and that if you make such a request that the council will respond promptly

If it does not, and I can't find it then the PCN does not conform to the regulations and is invalid


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CCorleone
post Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 21:41
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Thanks @Pastmybest

Yes I was able to view. I’ll upload here now. You can see me leaving work and immediately turning left and my eyes are on the entrance driving in and out of work.
Here’s a video from the council site.

Council video of bus gate next to work entrance

I wonder if I have grounds with the bend on the road and my work entrance, being new to the area and also my first week at the job and that’s the week when I drive through the gate In 6 consecutive days.

Still image of my car from the York council website
Council still image

This post has been edited by CCorleone: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 21:46
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 07:53
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Eh! A bus gate with an access road in it?

Have to see what the traffic order says.

It used to be controlled by bollards from one direction but now appears to be two way, judging by the markings.

This thread appears to show two sets of restriction signs with the access road in between.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1395390

The famous Lendal Bridge case was based on the number of exemptions so I wonder if this Order has the same.
That'll be the old Terrys Chocolate factory IIRC.


EDIT
https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/announcements/p...download/69625/

If the OP works in that complex I would assume that he has an exemption to use the bus gate. Needs to ask his management and probably register his VRM.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 08:48
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 17:31
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 08:53) *
If the OP works in that complex I would assume that he has an exemption to use the bus gate. Needs to ask his management and probably register his VRM.

Not necessarily, the complex can be accessed by entering the northern end of Millfield Lane, without the need to go through the bus gate.

CCorleone, show us all the pages of at least 1 PCN, including all the small print, so we can check for errors. Also, there is legal precedent that in a case like this you should only have to pay the first penalty.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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CCorleone
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:29
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Hi
Thanks for the replies.
Unfortunately, I only found out about Millfield Lane end after receiving the PCN.
New residents to York and unfortunately I don't know my way around and used the (now not so) trusty sat nav which by the way is updated and still doesn’t recognise the restriction.
Yes, It is a two way street. Does there need to be certain road painted lines for a bus lane?
If you go right up to the top of the post, you’ll see the links for one PCN uploaded and also the council video attached and stills.
Absolutely gutted, my employment induction on the 26th July was the first one, followed by one for Monday 29th July and every day until Thursday when my partner received the first PCN through the post.
You’ll notice on the video leaving the work exit, the gate is immediately to the left:

Work didn’t mention anything about it or registering my car, a warning would have been nice.

Please let me know what you think about the video and PCN,
Thanks a lot

Also, if there is a way of just paying the one, then I’ think I’ll take that and be grateful.
Would showing my tenancy contract to show we relocated here in May from the south and my employment contract which shows I started on July 29th after my induction?

Thanks again


This post has been edited by CCorleone: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:29
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Longtime Lurker
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:44
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 08:53) *


A traffic order "...which comes into effect on 10th January 2018 for an experimental period of 18 months ending on 9th July 2019."

Unless the council remembered to renew it or make it permanent then then restriction expired 20 days before the PCN was issued!

This post has been edited by Longtime Lurker: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:45
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CCorleone
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:48
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Ooh that’s very interesting. How would I find out this information? Is there somewhere online I could view?

Thank you
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NeilCr
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 19:58
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I am not an expert but is this relevant?

https://democracy.york.gov.uk/ieDecisionDet...aspx?AIId=51093
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CCorleone
post Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 21:50
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Hi
Thanks for the link, it seems that it’s not permanent from what I can see there.
I think my only option is to try and get five of the penalties removed and pay for one.
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 04:02
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No, don't pay anything yet.

The other issue in your case is that you did not pass a restriction sign; the video clearly shows your vehicle exiting the access road between both sets of signs.

Whilst the contravention is being in a bus lane it seems logical to contend that this normally means that you have been made aware of the restriction (traffic sign) on entry and that you have ignored such a restriction.

Is there anything on the exit road that indicates there is a bus lane ahead?

Wait for others to comment.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 04:03
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CCorleone
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 14:27
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Hey Mick

Thanks for getting back to me regarding that. I finish early on Fridays, what I’ll do is take a drive there tomorrow morning and go and have a look at the work exit as leaving. I’ll put my dash cam on to record me exiting work and upload here tomorrow. If I get chance to get there later today I will.

Thanks
Carla
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stamfordman
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 14:32
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have you been driving through the bus gate both way to and from work?
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Mad Mick V
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 15:26
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OP ---don't drive through it again if there is another entrance/exit from that complex. No need to get another PCN but the exit sign, if there is one, is key.
Mick
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cp8759
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 17:37
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QUOTE (CCorleone @ Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 19:48) *
Ooh that’s very interesting. How would I find out this information? Is there somewhere online I could view?

Thank you

The link provided says:

For further information please contact Graham Titchener Telephone 01904 551495
e mail: graham.titchener@york.gov.uk


I would contact Graham and ask him for a copy of the current order.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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CCorleone
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 18:51
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Hi Mick
No I don’t mean I will drive through the gate again, I mean go there and leave the work exit and see if there’s any bus lane signs exiting work.
Yes unfortunately I went in both directions for my first week at work until the first PCN came through the post. I didn’t make it back to work today but tomorrow afternoon I’ll pop there and take a video leaving work.

Cheers
Carla
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NeilCr
post Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 20:05
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QUOTE (CCorleone @ Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 22:50) *
Hi
Thanks for the link, it seems that it’s not permanent from what I can see there.
I think my only option is to try and get five of the penalties removed and pay for one.


Aah okay

I read it as the executive member making it permanent but guess I got it wrong
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Longtime Lurker
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 13:40
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QUOTE (NeilCr @ Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 21:05) *
I read it as the executive member making it permanent but guess I got it wrong


The executive member approved making it permanent, which is different to actually making it permanent. If they didn't actually make a new order, then they had no power to issue these PCNs, so CCorleone wins.
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cp8759
post Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 21:04
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QUOTE (Longtime Lurker @ Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 14:40) *
QUOTE (NeilCr @ Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 21:05) *
I read it as the executive member making it permanent but guess I got it wrong


The executive member approved making it permanent, which is different to actually making it permanent. If they didn't actually make a new order, then they had no power to issue these PCNs, so CCorleone wins.

Quite, CCorleone should ask Graham if there's a permanent order, and if so we need to see a copy.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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CCorleone
post Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 15:29
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Hi all
Sorry with the delay.
Ok yesterday I took a video of me driving out of work. And there’s not one sign saying a bus lane to the left. Please view the video.
Also, I received only pcns for coming left out of work through the gate. None turning right after the gate? Any idea why this is?

Please see my link for the video exiting work

Thanks Dash cam exiting work

Email sent to Graham from York council asking for a copy of recent traffic order

Thanks guys
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