Bus gate contraventions, 6 in 6 days - 34j Penalties, Photos and dash cam footage attached |
Bus gate contraventions, 6 in 6 days - 34j Penalties, Photos and dash cam footage attached |
Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 19:43
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Bus gate penalty notice
Bus gate penalty pg 2 Bus gate penalty notice page 3 Bus gate penalty page 4 Dropbox DashCam of bus gate Evening all. I’m hoping to get some good advice, that can be pay it or appeal it. So, it seems I’ve got 6 bus gate penalties for 6 consecutive days I’ll try and give as much info as I can. I’ve uploaded the images of one in the above links. So my partner and I relocated to York in May (2019) I Started work at Tangerine factory on Low Poppleton Lane on Friday 26th July (2019) One week straight driving through a damn bus gate, There are signs before and marked as bus lane cameras. Bus gate isn’t signed apart from on the road as you drive over it, which immediately right after the gate is my new place of employment. I stupidly believed there would be a bus lane further up, not knowing about bus gates! I was taking a chance and six days straight absolutely is killing me! Moved from down south oop north and never driven the area previously to starting work and my Sat Nav system took me that way. Once the first penalty arrived on the door, I said to my partner “that’s the only way I can get through” The bus gate sits on a bend and I’m turning right almost as I drive though it. “Big painted large words on the road saying bus gate” Being new to the area and starting a new job, I use my Sat Nav and my Sat Nav system didn’t recognise the restriction. What are the chances of getting them reduced to one? Or none? I feel like I want to put my own no entry ⛔️ post up next to it! Or a sign warning staff they cannot go that way. I did take a video today driving it but stopping and immediately passes a motorbike. All info greatly appreciated, good or bad. Please Be kind it’s my first 6 apparent driving offences Thanks in advance Edit* The car is registered in my partners name and I’m a named driver on the insurance. This post has been edited by CCorleone: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 00:04 |
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Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 19:43
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Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 21:20
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Look carefully at the PCN it should tell you that you have the right to view the CCTV or request stills taken from it and that if you make such a request that the council will respond promptly
If it does not, and I can't find it then the PCN does not conform to the regulations and is invalid -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 21:41
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Thanks @Pastmybest
Yes I was able to view. I’ll upload here now. You can see me leaving work and immediately turning left and my eyes are on the entrance driving in and out of work. Here’s a video from the council site. Council video of bus gate next to work entrance I wonder if I have grounds with the bend on the road and my work entrance, being new to the area and also my first week at the job and that’s the week when I drive through the gate In 6 consecutive days. Still image of my car from the York council website Council still image This post has been edited by CCorleone: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 - 21:46 |
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 07:53
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#4
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
Eh! A bus gate with an access road in it?
Have to see what the traffic order says. It used to be controlled by bollards from one direction but now appears to be two way, judging by the markings. This thread appears to show two sets of restriction signs with the access road in between. http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...t&p=1395390 The famous Lendal Bridge case was based on the number of exemptions so I wonder if this Order has the same. That'll be the old Terrys Chocolate factory IIRC. EDIT https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/announcements/p...download/69625/ If the OP works in that complex I would assume that he has an exemption to use the bus gate. Needs to ask his management and probably register his VRM. Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 08:48 |
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 17:31
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If the OP works in that complex I would assume that he has an exemption to use the bus gate. Needs to ask his management and probably register his VRM. Not necessarily, the complex can be accessed by entering the northern end of Millfield Lane, without the need to go through the bus gate. CCorleone, show us all the pages of at least 1 PCN, including all the small print, so we can check for errors. Also, there is legal precedent that in a case like this you should only have to pay the first penalty. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:29
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#6
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Hi
Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, I only found out about Millfield Lane end after receiving the PCN. New residents to York and unfortunately I don't know my way around and used the (now not so) trusty sat nav which by the way is updated and still doesn’t recognise the restriction. Yes, It is a two way street. Does there need to be certain road painted lines for a bus lane? If you go right up to the top of the post, you’ll see the links for one PCN uploaded and also the council video attached and stills. Absolutely gutted, my employment induction on the 26th July was the first one, followed by one for Monday 29th July and every day until Thursday when my partner received the first PCN through the post. You’ll notice on the video leaving the work exit, the gate is immediately to the left: Work didn’t mention anything about it or registering my car, a warning would have been nice. Please let me know what you think about the video and PCN, Thanks a lot Also, if there is a way of just paying the one, then I’ think I’ll take that and be grateful. Would showing my tenancy contract to show we relocated here in May from the south and my employment contract which shows I started on July 29th after my induction? Thanks again This post has been edited by CCorleone: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:29 |
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:44
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 719 Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,615 |
A traffic order "...which comes into effect on 10th January 2018 for an experimental period of 18 months ending on 9th July 2019." Unless the council remembered to renew it or make it permanent then then restriction expired 20 days before the PCN was issued! This post has been edited by Longtime Lurker: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:45 |
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 18:48
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Ooh that’s very interesting. How would I find out this information? Is there somewhere online I could view?
Thank you |
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 19:58
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 7 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,309 |
I am not an expert but is this relevant?
https://democracy.york.gov.uk/ieDecisionDet...aspx?AIId=51093 |
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Thu, 8 Aug 2019 - 21:50
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#10
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Hi
Thanks for the link, it seems that it’s not permanent from what I can see there. I think my only option is to try and get five of the penalties removed and pay for one. |
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 04:02
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#11
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
No, don't pay anything yet.
The other issue in your case is that you did not pass a restriction sign; the video clearly shows your vehicle exiting the access road between both sets of signs. Whilst the contravention is being in a bus lane it seems logical to contend that this normally means that you have been made aware of the restriction (traffic sign) on entry and that you have ignored such a restriction. Is there anything on the exit road that indicates there is a bus lane ahead? Wait for others to comment. Mick This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 04:03 |
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 14:27
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#12
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Hey Mick
Thanks for getting back to me regarding that. I finish early on Fridays, what I’ll do is take a drive there tomorrow morning and go and have a look at the work exit as leaving. I’ll put my dash cam on to record me exiting work and upload here tomorrow. If I get chance to get there later today I will. Thanks Carla |
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 14:32
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
have you been driving through the bus gate both way to and from work?
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 15:26
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#14
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Member Group: Closed Posts: 9,710 Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,355 |
OP ---don't drive through it again if there is another entrance/exit from that complex. No need to get another PCN but the exit sign, if there is one, is key.
Mick |
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 17:37
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Ooh that’s very interesting. How would I find out this information? Is there somewhere online I could view? Thank you The link provided says: For further information please contact Graham Titchener Telephone 01904 551495 e mail: graham.titchener@york.gov.uk I would contact Graham and ask him for a copy of the current order. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 18:51
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#16
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Hi Mick
No I don’t mean I will drive through the gate again, I mean go there and leave the work exit and see if there’s any bus lane signs exiting work. Yes unfortunately I went in both directions for my first week at work until the first PCN came through the post. I didn’t make it back to work today but tomorrow afternoon I’ll pop there and take a video leaving work. Cheers Carla |
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Fri, 9 Aug 2019 - 20:05
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: 7 Apr 2019 Member No.: 103,309 |
Hi Thanks for the link, it seems that it’s not permanent from what I can see there. I think my only option is to try and get five of the penalties removed and pay for one. Aah okay I read it as the executive member making it permanent but guess I got it wrong |
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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 13:40
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 719 Joined: 19 Dec 2017 Member No.: 95,615 |
I read it as the executive member making it permanent but guess I got it wrong The executive member approved making it permanent, which is different to actually making it permanent. If they didn't actually make a new order, then they had no power to issue these PCNs, so CCorleone wins. |
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Sat, 10 Aug 2019 - 21:04
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I read it as the executive member making it permanent but guess I got it wrong The executive member approved making it permanent, which is different to actually making it permanent. If they didn't actually make a new order, then they had no power to issue these PCNs, so CCorleone wins. Quite, CCorleone should ask Graham if there's a permanent order, and if so we need to see a copy. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 15 Aug 2019 - 15:29
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#20
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 5 Aug 2019 From: York Member No.: 105,100 |
Hi all
Sorry with the delay. Ok yesterday I took a video of me driving out of work. And there’s not one sign saying a bus lane to the left. Please view the video. Also, I received only pcns for coming left out of work through the gate. None turning right after the gate? Any idea why this is? Please see my link for the video exiting work Thanks Dash cam exiting work Email sent to Graham from York council asking for a copy of recent traffic order Thanks guys |
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