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46mph in a 40mph on a clear evening!, NIP Received ... is PACE defence still valid?
KeenSkier
post Sat, 22 Jul 2006 - 18:00
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Bedfordshire Police
Date of the offence: - July 2006
Date of the NIP: - 5 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A505 Hitchin Road, Luton nr. Cannon Lane - Towards
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Clear day, 6:57 on a summers evening - dual carriageway, dry road, little traffic - no danger to anyone!

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • Complete the PACE witness statement.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v1.0.2: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:49:37 +0100

Have driven past this camera many, many times - faces you on the westbound side of Hitchin Road and has never flashed or appeared active at any time. No need for it there in any case as it's such a clear road!

What I would appreciate confirmation of is:
a) Is the PACE defence or strategy still likely to succeed given the High Court ruling?
b) Given 46mph is - according to the ACPO guidelines - the upper limit of acceptable speed for which prosecutions are not normally recommended - is there any point in writing politely pointing this out and asking them to review whether pursuing this is in the best interests of the pollice, traffic cameras and the public perception of these!?
c) If this procedure is strung out over 6 months without getting a prosecution or hearing, am I correct in understanding they've lost?
d) Finally, what is a "B and B" letter?

Any advice welcomed ... am tempted by the PACE route BUT worry that this will just delay rather than actually result in a win!

Thanks

KeenSkier
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post Sat, 22 Jul 2006 - 18:00
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g_attrill
post Sat, 22 Jul 2006 - 18:18
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QUOTE (KeenSkier @ Sat, 22 Jul 2006 - 19:00) *
b) Given 46mph is - according to the ACPO guidelines - the upper limit of acceptable speed for which prosecutions are not normally recommended - is there any point in writing politely pointing this out and asking them to review whether pursuing this is in the best interests of the pollice, traffic cameras and the public perception of these!?


Small point - the figures in the guidelines are the lower limit of where they would expect action to be taken. ie. 46mph is the point at which they would consider a FPN to be appropriate.

This post has been edited by g_attrill: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 - 18:18


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KeenSkier
post Sat, 22 Jul 2006 - 18:40
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Thanks - I stand corrected!

My implied point was though at 46mph, it only requires an error of 2.2% to be below that guideline limit and given the ideal, clear, dry driving conditions, is this really a good prosecution in the sense of the public good?

I admit 46mph is 15% above the speed limit but let's be honest, most here accept that they were above the limit, but that the limits are often daft and the method and focus on drivers is not liked!

Meanwhile, all kinds of robbery, burglary and personal violence are on the increase!
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KeenSkier
post Tue, 25 Jul 2006 - 09:28
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Would appreciate any comments or suggestions as to approach ... am I correct in what I say about timing out and so on?

It may not be a major offence, or as interesting as most posted here, but I'd just got a clean licence back and I'd driven past this wretched camera for years without being "done" ...
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Ocelot
post Tue, 25 Jul 2006 - 13:16
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I think the PACE witness statement is probably your best chance here. Even if it goes all the way to court, at that speed, you are unlikely to receive any significant increase to your penalty, should you lose the case.

d) Finally, what is a "B and B" letter?

This is where they invite you to stay in a Bed and Breakfast whilst the case is being heard... Only joking, it is a 'Bluff and Bluster' letter, which is a threatening, often standard, letter where they suggest that you will end up in hell when you die if you don't accept their kind offer of a £60 donation to their pension fund.
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Johno
post Tue, 25 Jul 2006 - 19:37
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You have 28 days to respond to their NIP - use them and don't send your response too soon.

Make sure if you go PACE you mark their NIP with 'see attached', staple the NIP to your PACE statement and send them by GUARANTEED DELIVERY.

All the above is essential to ensure they can't 'lose' your PACE Statement and then state you never responded to their s172 request.


I agree 46mph in a 40 stinks angry.gif Unfortunately fairness and proportionality aren't buzzwords with the Scammerati, money and pensions are !

Good Luck whatever you decide to do.

This post has been edited by Johno: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 - 19:39
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crystal
post Tue, 25 Jul 2006 - 19:49
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Hi,

As above consider the PACE statment route on about day 26/27 using "signed for next day delivery" remember to go to the royal mail site and print the signature off after about 3 days.
Make sure you follow the instructions in the read this first thread exactly and do not embelish the letter

There is no point discussing things with the scammers it is a best a waste of breath.
The fact the road is clar straight or otherwise is not relervent.
They can do you for 41 in a 40 if they feel like.

Regards
Crystal
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