PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Yellow Box Junction Fine Newham Barking Road/Oak Cres
auditt1
post Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 15:37
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,763



Hi,

If anyone could assist me it would be appreciated. Received pcn for yellow box junction, from the pictures it looks like I was in there for 10 seconds. There was no video - just a greyed out area with a play sign but nothing to play. Offence 31J. I believe that I moved out of the box in time, yet the pictures stop when I was half out in a total of ten seconds. From reading this forum, I tend to doubt the legality of this box junction too.

Once again, any help would be appreciated, even if it's just to pay these t**ts. The last pic wouldnt upload but it shows the car stationary but at 14:56.27 - so presumably a total of ten seconds - where I must have gone forward and taken the space I had.





Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 10)
Advertisement
post Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 15:37
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
stamfordman
post Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 16:12
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,657
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



This box is well known to us and the good news is that I think the last adjudication we reported was that the box was no longer serving its original purpose as the junction has been remodelled and the side road is no longer there.

Neil B. will confirm this. Of course this doesn't stop the most venal of councils, Newham, from continuing to issue PCNs here.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 16:47
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 16:52
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 18,069
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



This the one you thinking of Stamf



2190120207

Mr Jumorain Gani attended today. He is the appellant’s son. He was also a passenger on 6th January 2019.
Mr Abul Gani appealed as he argued that there was sufficient space beyond the box junction to enable him to drive out of the box. Mr Jumorain Gani also argues that the box junction does not comply with the relevant regulations
I have seen the CCTV footage. The footage shows that the box junction markings are very faded. I looked at google street view of the location taken over a period of years during the hearing.
Regulation 11 (6) in Part 7 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 defines a box junction as an area of carriageway where the marking has been places and which is at a junction between two or more roads, at a gyratory system or roundabout, along a length of two way road the carriageway of which is not greater than 4.5 metres wide at its narrowest point or a length of road adjacent to a fire or police or ambulance station.
The box junction in Barking Road is at a dual carriageway. The area to the left of the box is pedestrianised. I find that the box is not at a junction of two or more roads and therefore it is not a box junction as defined by the Regulations.


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 19:00
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,888
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



That is actually a side road, albeit a dead-end, limited parking area.

But I'm looking at the markings; is that 'substantially compliant'?

It now reduced to a series of Xs an adjudicator might rule it not.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 19:10
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,657
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 17:52) *
This the one you thinking of Stamf

2190120207


Yes indeed. This has got to be worth citing. If I was the OP I'd take it to the tribunal. Plus anything else on the stop, markings etc.

Neil is right that traffic can enter the dead end side road, as I first noted about this location some time ago. But it is not by any stretch of the imagination a route that has the status of what was there for the box in the first place.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
auditt1
post Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 11:06
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,763



Thanks to all who have contributed.

I will send my appeal off as below and if they don't cancel, take it to the tribunal.


QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 17:52) *
This the one you thinking of Stamf



2190120207

Mr Jumorain Gani attended today. He is the appellant’s son. He was also a passenger on 6th January 2019.
Mr Abul Gani appealed as he argued that there was sufficient space beyond the box junction to enable him to drive out of the box. Mr Jumorain Gani also argues that the box junction does not comply with the relevant regulations
I have seen the CCTV footage. The footage shows that the box junction markings are very faded. I looked at google street view of the location taken over a period of years during the hearing.
Regulation 11 (6) in Part 7 of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 defines a box junction as an area of carriageway where the marking has been places and which is at a junction between two or more roads, at a gyratory system or roundabout, along a length of two way road the carriageway of which is not greater than 4.5 metres wide at its narrowest point or a length of road adjacent to a fire or police or ambulance station.
The box junction in Barking Road is at a dual carriageway. The area to the left of the box is pedestrianised. I find that the box is not at a junction of two or more roads and therefore it is not a box junction as defined by the Regulations.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
stamfordman
post Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 11:28
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,657
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



don't send anything without posting here first.

get the video

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 11:28
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mr Meldrew
post Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 11:33
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 502
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
From: 19 Riverbank
Member No.: 79,151



So, the yellow box junction is considered:

- very faded
- not at a junction of two or more roads
- not a box junction as defined by the Regulations
- not enforceable

I’m not confident the council could prove you wrong.


--------------------
I do tend to have a bee in my bonnet re failing to consider and fairness
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
auditt1
post Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 11:50
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,763



Thanks!

QUOTE (Mr Meldrew @ Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 12:33) *
So, the yellow box junction is considered:

- very faded
- not at a junction of two or more roads
- not a box junction as defined by the Regulations
- not enforceable

I’m not confident the council could prove you wrong.



There is no video, it says allow up to 3 working days from date of contr. which was 3/7.

I was not in the box for long, ten seconds according to the stills and from what I remember.



QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 12:28) *
don't send anything without posting here first.

get the video

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 12:16
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,888
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



You need to draft representations in a cogent, readable statement.

Not just c&p cases and opinions from here.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
auditt1
post Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 16:51
Post #11


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 13 Jul 2019
Member No.: 104,763



I'll see what I can do. Appreciate all the help

QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 13:16) *
You need to draft representations in a cogent, readable statement.

Not just c&p cases and opinions from here.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 20th October 2019 - 22:40
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.