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Notice of enforcement from Marston
shoadam
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:12
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Hi guys...

On the 13.08.2018 my mother had a surgery. While picking her up and bringing her to my vehicle i had received a parking ticket. I had appealed this on regards obviously my mother just had an surgery and i had to park outside of the surgical clinic to bring her to the vehicle as safe as possible. They did not accept. To my last appeal they had not replied and now i have suddenly received an marston notice of enforcement letter. I don't understand as they haven't replied for months and now suddenly i receive this letter?

What am i to do?!
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post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:12
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stamfordman
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:23
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Go get the V5C registration document for the car and check the name and address on it.
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hcandersen
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 10:31
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OP, that's you.

This is time critical so, no time for padding.

To my last appeal they had not replied and now i have suddenly received an marston notice of enforcement letter. I don't understand as they haven't replied for months and now suddenly i receive this letter?


We must know exactly what transpired so pl answer the following:
Was the PCN placed on the car or sent through the post?
When did you make representations?
What correspondence or notices have you received since making representations?
What are their dates and titles/headings?

At some stage you'll have to post docs etc, but for the moment the priority is to know where you are in the process. The ne exception is that you must post Marstons letter pl and leave in everything except personal details.
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shoadam
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:56
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:31) *
OP, that's you.

This is time critical so, no time for padding.

To my last appeal they had not replied and now i have suddenly received an marston notice of enforcement letter. I don't understand as they haven't replied for months and now suddenly i receive this letter?


We must know exactly what transpired so pl answer the following:
Was the PCN placed on the car or sent through the post?
When did you make representations?
What correspondence or notices have you received since making representations?
What are their dates and titles/headings?

At some stage you'll have to post docs etc, but for the moment the priority is to know where you are in the process. The ne exception is that you must post Marstons letter pl and leave in everything except personal details.


The PCN was placed on the car
I made representations the next day through the websites which then carried on through email
At first I had appealed the case as I was driving which they then rejected as they said the registered owner has to get in touch. This then meant my Mother had to appeal the case as she is the registered keeper. I have just gone through her emails with her and their last reply was -
' Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
I have considered what you have said and all the available evidence, but I do not agree
that we should cancel your liability for this PCN.
Please be advised that we sent you a Notice to Owner dated 05/10/18. However we did
not receive any response from yourself.
A charge certificate has been issued on this case because the period allowed by law for
the keeper to make formal representations to us has expired, and the appropriate charge
has not been paid '

I had not known this until now.. she told me she had contacted them after this reply by phone and email and told them she is happy to take this case to any means necessarily as picking up a person who has just had heavy surgery is more than a good enough reason to be parking outside of an hospital especially when i was given last minute advance to come pick her up.

Please note them telling a woman who has just gone through surgery to appeal it while on heavy meds and also going through depression is not going to make any sense as it took a month or two for recovery..

I am confused on what to do now.. do i contact or go to the Hammersmith council and argue about this in person? This is unacceptable as there was more than a valid reason for them to accept the appeal! If they had kept the appeal in the drivers hands (me) I would have carried on the replies in time but they wanted a person who just had surgery to start appealing it.

This is terrible dry.gif



Also please note as i was walking out the doors with my mum the traffic warden was their giving the ticket out and i clearly told him and he said he will note that down on the PCN so it wouldn't go through. He obviously lied about this but of course i got no evidence right? What a stupid situation!
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hcandersen
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 12:11
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OP, pl get off this 'she had surgery' line. It might have a place, but not in every other sentence.

The events as per your account are:
PCN served by hand;
Challenge made and rejected in writing;
Authority told you in writing that the next stage was for a NTO to be sent to the registered keeper;
You knew that a NTO would be the next step;
Next we have that you found that your mother had written to the authority after receiving a Charge Certificate.

Despite asking, you have not posted Marstons letter.

We must have this letter;
You must also tell us the date of the email;
You must tell us why you did not speak to your mother about the NTO or oversee her post to find the NTO;
Does your mother recall whether she received a NTO?
As your mother is the registered keeper, this presumes she can manage her affairs. After all, the purpose of the RK register is to enable a raft of persons to write to and serve notices on the owner of the vehicle.

The authority rejected your argument which they are entitled to do. Ultimately the matter should be put to an adjudicator for determination, but at present you appear to be outside the appeals process by virtue of notices not having been actioned.

Marstons letter will tell us more as will your responses to the questions above.
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shoadam
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 16:09
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 13:11) *
OP, pl get off this 'she had surgery' line. It might have a place, but not in every other sentence.

The events as per your account are:
PCN served by hand;
Challenge made and rejected in writing;
Authority told you in writing that the next stage was for a NTO to be sent to the registered keeper;
You knew that a NTO would be the next step;
Next we have that you found that your mother had written to the authority after receiving a Charge Certificate.

Despite asking, you have not posted Marstons letter.

We must have this letter;
You must also tell us the date of the email;
You must tell us why you did not speak to your mother about the NTO or oversee her post to find the NTO;
Does your mother recall whether she received a NTO?
As your mother is the registered keeper, this presumes she can manage her affairs. After all, the purpose of the RK register is to enable a raft of persons to write to and serve notices on the owner of the vehicle.

The authority rejected your argument which they are entitled to do. Ultimately the matter should be put to an adjudicator for determination, but at present you appear to be outside the appeals process by virtue of notices not having been actioned.

Marstons letter will tell us more as will your responses to the questions above.



Here is a picture - https://ibb.co/VjXvf5h sorry

date of the last email - 27/11/2018

No NTO was received

Thank you.

This post has been edited by shoadam: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 16:13
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Neil B
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 16:18
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:23) *
Go get the V5C registration document for the car and check the name and address on it.

Have you done this?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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stamfordman
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 16:19
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Did you mother get a charge certificate and an order for recovery. These would have been sent after the NTO.
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shoadam
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 16:35
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No. This is the first and only thing we have received since the last appeal!
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hcandersen
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 16:47
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stamfordman beat me to it.

We now know the notice is genuine - sometimes authorities' agents and authorities themselves send letters demanding money before a debt has been registered, but not here - therefore, having established that the PCN was served by hand, we know what notices should have been served:
PCN
NTO
Charge Certificate
Order for Recovery
Notice of Enforcement.

OP, looking at your account you must check with your mother and not assume.

You posted an undated!! email from the council - I've asked for this date but to no avail - which said:

Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).
I have considered what you have said and all the available evidence, but I do not agree
that we should cancel your liability for this PCN.
Please be advised that we sent you a Notice to Owner dated 05/10/18. However we did
not receive any response from yourself.
A charge certificate has been issued on this case because the period allowed by law for
the keeper to make formal representations to us has expired, and the appropriate charge
has not been paid '


So, why and when did she write? It was after the NTO's 28 days, so presumably when the charge cert arrived.
But you say you didn't receive one, so what would prompt her to write?

OP, this is my 'amnesty' point: do not think that if you say no to our questions about notices that this necessarily improves your case. Just give us the full facts. We can spot inconsistencies from 100 paces, so just the facts, pl.
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Incandescent
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 20:51
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OP, whilst you got the original PCN and submitted informal reps, it seems that the three subsequent statutory documents that must be issued to the owner of the vehicle as recorded on the V5C have not been received: -

- Notice to Owner
- Charge Certificate
- Order for Recovery

Only when no response is received to the last one, can bailiffs be instructed. Bailiffs are very diligent as their livelihood depends upon it. You have still not told us whether the V5C registration document contains the correct name and address for your mother. If it is incorrect, all the above documents will have gone to that address, and not to the current address of your mother. Now you have bailiffs at your door, the only way to revert the process back to the Notice to Owner is to submit an Out-of-Time Witness Statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre that the Notice to Owner was not received. Whether this is accepted or not depends on why the V5C was not correct on the date the Notice to Owner was issued.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 20:52
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shoadam
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 23:00
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This was replies to the emails they sent back regarding the appeal. There was no reply to the notice of owner. This was all in email.
We have not received anything but this letter since there last email which i showed what was said above.

I first appealed this through my e-mail which they then said 'You may well decide to send us another response to this same matter. I must advise that I
am quite satisfied that you are now well rehearsed in your rights on this matter, and the
Council will not respond further until representation is received from the registered keeper
of the vehicle' - This was on 13/09/2018

Then the registered keeper (my mum) wrote her appeal to them on 15/11/2018 which was shortly after recovery which she also mentioned in the email and they replied on 27/11/2018 with the email i mentioned above.


The address is correct. The thing is a lot of stolen post is within our building which is recorded with the council too.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 23:03
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You must check the car registration document for the address on it. Have you actually looked at it or are you assuming.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 23:04
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Neil B
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 23:32
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QUOTE (shoadam @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 00:00) *
There was no reply to the notice of owner.

What does this mean?



QUOTE (shoadam @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 00:00) *
Then the registered keeper (my mum) wrote her appeal to them on 15/11/2018

In response to what?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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shoadam
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 14:11
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I have looked at it. It was wrong at the time of the PCN but it had been corrected recently due to a issue in the past we had spoke about on this

QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 00:32) *
QUOTE (shoadam @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 00:00) *
There was no reply to the notice of owner.

What does this mean?



QUOTE (shoadam @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 00:00) *
Then the registered keeper (my mum) wrote her appeal to them on 15/11/2018

In response to what?



Registered keeper (my mum) wrote her appeal in response to them replying to my appeal saying
'You may well decide to send us another response to this same matter. I must advise that I
am quite satisfied that you are now well rehearsed in your rights on this matter, and the
Council will not respond further until representation is received from the registered keeper
of the vehicle.'
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stamfordman
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 14:19
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QUOTE (shoadam @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 15:11) *
I have looked at it. It was wrong at the time of the PCN



All the letters about the PCN probably went to the 'wrong' address - what date was the registration document updated.

The PCN was 13 August 2018. When the council sends a notice to owner it asks DVLA for the address it has and then uses that from then on.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 15:10
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It was wrong at the time of the PCN but it had been corrected recently due to a issue in the past we had spoke about on this


OP, we are trying to help, but you continue to be vague.

But we now appear to have got to the crux of this matter:

NO notices from the council have been delivered;
All, and limited, correspondence has been by email;

This points to your V5C being out of date at the time of the PCN and until the NTO was sent, and you have confirmed as much:

So, you MUST, MUST, MUST look at the V5C and tell us the docref date i.e. the date on which the entry in the register was changed.

And as you remember doing this 'due to a issue in the past' , you can probably tell us when you notified DVLA, which was?

You MUST answer these questions promptly:
How and when DVLA were notified of a change to the RK register;
When the change was effected.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 15:15
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Neil B
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 00:14
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QUOTE (shoadam @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 12:56) *
she is happy to take this case to any means necessary


shoadam.

I'm going to be blunt, hoping it shakes you into action.

There are means but none until you get your act together.
Next that happens is the bailiff turns up and adds £235 to the bill.

What we (you and she) need is to SHOW us all of these emails and ALL documents received.
Don't type what the emails say, SHOW us, with all dates visible.

Also, fully explain the V5 problem, again with ALL dates.


The money clock is ticking.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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shoadam
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 01:23
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Ok very sorry. Here it is..

The V5C was only sent off last week for correction of the name as we had only realized around last month that there was a letter which was different in the surname and also no flat number was recorded down on the logbook.

Here is the list of all emails in order -

https://ibb.co/DWVH2hr
https://ibb.co/wZk17LS
https://ibb.co/JvPFkbp
https://ibb.co/sWc6CXw
https://ibb.co/QNRR1Gv
https://ibb.co/rZyS2ng
https://ibb.co/gd61MFL

Thank u and sorry - i get very panicky with these type of baliff letters

The V5 problem was due to baliffs coming to my house last month and me ending up with a huge charge which made me realize logbook had wrong information. I will get exact dates tomorrow
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hcandersen
post Thu, 13 Jun 2019 - 06:21
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OP, on on the verge of giving up.

I am still going to persevere and put what appears to be evasion down to panic.

But this won't last forever.

The V5C was only sent off last week for correction of the name as we had only realized around last month that there was a letter which was different in the surname and also no flat number was recorded down on the logbook.


And what 'letter' was this?

What was the address on the V5C?

If what you've posted is correct then even now you do not have the V5C to hand, do you, so there's no point us asking you to look at it because you don't have it, it's with DVLA (they don't turn round amendments in a week).



You are behind the 8 ball due to your failure to ensure that the V5C had your accurate address.

The degree of your culpability will determine whether you can stop the enforcement process and engage with the appeals process. At present it does not look good and you should steel yourself to paying. Nothing to do with surgery, or the contravention, but simply because you failed to keep your V5C up to date leading to you failing to respond to formal notices in time.

So, the address on the V5C was??? We do not need the exact address, but you MUST give us the format e.g your address is:

****(number), ****(flat), *****(house), street, post code if all elements applicable, whereas the V5C had:
***, *****, ******,

I also suggest you contact bailiffadviceonline - they charge a fee, but are experts at submitting the necessary court documents to try and engage you with the appeals process.

(Normally councils chase up penalties more rapidly which suggests that even the bailiffs had problems tracking down your mother's address)



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