Parking Fine with NO Images, fine wasnt on my car Options

[AussieMatey]

Hi There Guys,

So I received a PCN notice in the post claiming I'd received a parking fine for parking on the pavement. As I hadnt paid within 14 days it had increased to £110.

There was no fine on my car (whether it wasnt stuck on, or was and some idiot took it off I dont know).

I also remembered the date of the fine and I didnt park on the pavement, in fact I never would as it would curb the hell out of my rims.

I went online to make representations and there arent even any images of car either on the pavement or with a fine on my car.

I made my representations, stating I dont park on the pavement, there wasnt a fine on my car, and there is no proof that I had parked on the pavement. The location shown isnt even correct as per where they state the fine occured.

I received a letter rejecting my representaitons, which is attached, along with screenshots of the PCN website from Ealing Council showing lack of any evidence.

They did say they would reduce my fine to £55 if I paid within 14 days - should I pay this, or fight it further?

I always pay my fines if I'm actually at fault, but I'm really not happy to pay this one as I believe I'm in the right on this occasion.

Your help is appreciated!

This post has been edited by AussieMatey: Fri, 3 May 2019 - 09:55

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[hcandersen]

Then give us something to help you with!

NTO; your reps; their rejection.. everything except your personal details.

As you have received a NOR you have to act within limited time periods therefore prompt and complete responses to our questions would be to your benefit.

If you cannot post the above promptly, then at least give us the date of the NOR.

[Earl Purple]

It may be a PCN where they put in the incorrect registration number.

We have had a few of those, where the driver who actually got the PCN doesn't need to do anything.

However this could be the "other" side of it, whereby somebody else got one that had your registration number on it.

You received a Notice To Owner, you have challenged to say you never received a PCN which they seem to accept so they should issue you the PCN now with details, however their site has no images.

[Neil B]

so they should issue you the PCN now with details,

WTF ?

[PASTMYBEST]

so they should issue you the PCN now with details,

WTF ?

They might. but just so the OP understands LEGALLY THEY CANNOT and must cancel the NTO if no PCN is served

[AussieMatey]

Sorry guys this was my first post and some of the attachments didn't work frustratingly.



I have attached the PCN NOR letter, I cant find the representations I made but what I said in my first message below is basically what I said.



There was no fine on my car (whether it wasnt stuck on, or was and some idiot took it off I dont know).



I also remembered the date of the fine and I didnt park on the pavement, in fact I never would as it would curb the hell out of my rims.



I went online to make representations and there arent even any images of car either on the pavement or with a fine on my car.



I made my representations, stating I dont park on the pavement, there wasnt a fine on my car, and there is no proof that I had parked on the pavement. The location shown isnt even correct as per where they state the fine occured.

This post has been edited by AussieMatey: Wed, 8 May 2019 - 10:32

Attached File(s)

 1557311447075_New_Doc_2019_05_08_11.14.03.pdf ( 577.33K ) Number of downloads: 40

 

[Earl Purple]

You have never received a PCN or evidence of one.

Were you parked in Craven Road, Ealing at all that day? Or even anywhere near the area? All you have said is that you didn't park on the pavement.

There is a car park in that road - if you were parked on the "approach" to the car park that would be considered parking on the pavement.

If no PCN were ever served it is too late for them to serve one now. If one was served and you didn't receive it, you should have challenged on the grounds of "I never received a PCN".

If you challenge formally and it goes to tribunal they will have to submit to the tribunal evidence they have of you being illegally parked, and probably that evidence will show a photo of a PCN stuck to your vehicle. You would then challenge, even if they have all that information, that it was never made available to you when you asked to view it, and therefore a procedural error on their part.

Aside from procedural issues, which should alone let you win, Craven Road is here. Were you parked in that car park with some of the vehicle overhanging the cross-over?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.513041,-0...6384!8i8192


This post has been edited by Earl Purple: Wed, 8 May 2019 - 10:43

[Neil B]

If you challenge formally and it goes to tribunal

Again, get it right please.

He's already submitted formal reps and been rejected. Now weighing up appeal to tribunal.

Aussie.
Can you just explain what this bit means.

The location shown isnt even correct as per where they state the fine occured.[/b]

[Neil B]

Aussie.
Can you just explain what this bit means.

The location shown isnt even correct as per where they state the fine occured.[/b]

Ok, I've figured it.
Can't see an adjudicator accepting their evidence.
CEO notes would be interesting.

[hcandersen]

I haven't figured it!

The OP must know where they were on the day in question because they claim that 'The location shown isnt even correct as per where they state the fine occured'.


This could only be because they know where they were. Surely they're not relying on the screenshot in post #1 which states clearly: Street: Craven Road; PCN date: 19/2/2019.

No ambiguity there. Surely the OP is not going to risk the discount on the green marker not being located on Craven Road?

[Neil B]

I haven't figured it!

The OP must know where they were on the day in question because they claim that 'The location shown isnt even correct as per where they state the fine occured'.


This could only be because they know where they were. Surely they're not relying on the screenshot in post #1 which states clearly: Street: Craven Road; PCN date: 19/2/2019.

No ambiguity there. Surely the OP is not going to risk the discount on the green marker not being located on Craven Road?

Craven Rd isn't even on that page of the map.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Wed, 8 May 2019 - 14:35

[hcandersen]

I think the defence of 'it's not on the page of a map whose provenance is unknown' would not win the day.

This is not about whether the council's GIS system works or not.

The OP knows where they were but have not revealed this info, presumably because they think their argument on this point would win the day.

IMO, not a chance.

[Earl Purple]

It's made more difficult by the fact that the OP can't find the representation he made, so we don't know whether Ealing Council actually addressed them or not.

Did he request images to back up the evidence?

I would have requested to see:
1. Evidence of the vehicle incorrectly parked
2. Evidence that a PCN had been served, i.e. a photo of the car with the PCN attached.

But we don't know what he requested.

The saving factor here appears to be that there are no images available on the website.

[Neil B]

It's made more difficult by the fact that the OP can't find the representation he made, so we don't know whether Ealing Council actually addressed them or not.

Did he request images to back up the evidence?

I would have requested to see:
1. Evidence of the vehicle incorrectly parked
2. Evidence that a PCN had been served, i.e. a photo of the car with the PCN attached.

But we don't know what he requested.

The saving factor here appears to be that there are no images available on the website.

+1
But HCA is right in that the OP could help matters along by telling us what he does know.

[AussieMatey]

Sorry for the delay guys.

In my representations I did not request evidence of the PCN being served, nor did request evidence that my car was indeed parked on the pavement.

I stated that there was no evidence on the Ealing Council website of either of these, and requested a cancellation due to this fact that there was no proof of the contravention. Assuming thats not the same as actually requesting the evidence?

I do park on Craven road, and was likely on that road or in the area on the day as its where my gym is. I would not have parked in a car park as they are all locked by the time I arrive in the evening, I would have simply parked on the road, but not on the pavement as I stated its not something I do. I park on this road multiple times a week with no issue.

Hope this helps, I only have a few days left to pay the discounted amount so would be interested to know if you feel like I should continue fighting this!

[Neil B]

I also remembered the date of the fine and I didnt park on the pavement, in fact I never would as it would curb the hell out of my rims.

If you remember then surely you recall at least roughly where?

Given your comment above, perhaps something like this > ?
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5128748,-0....6384!8i8192
That tarmac area, as an an example with no kerbs, is footway.

Hard to decide without CEO notes and that's the evidence against you.