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PCN stopping in a box junction - ROMFORD ROAD / Fourth Ave, Entering and stopping in a box junction when prohibited
Mocede
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 23:23
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Hi all, first of all thanks to Stamfordman for helping me get here.
I have received a pcn for entering and stopping in a box junction while travelling to London recently.
Letter and video link to follow.
I need help to challenge this pcn. Can anyone here please help me?

Sorry I am new here so if there is anything I missed please correct me.


For some reason my pcn photo won't upload?

Had to reduce file size. Here they are.
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post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 23:23
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Mocede
post Tue, 23 Apr 2019 - 23:40
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YouTube video.
https://youtu.be/cAiZWPpjrH8
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Mocede
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 00:04
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Here is the back of letter I forgot to add sorry!
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stamfordman
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 07:30
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Looks like you stopped short for some reason and had room to exit the box so no contravention and it was quite short anyway.

Why did you stop and not move up behind the car in front?



This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 07:30
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Incandescent
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 09:56
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 08:30) *
Looks like you stopped short for some reason and had room to exit the box so no contravention and it was quite short anyway.

Why did you stop and not move up behind the car in front?

+1
The contravention is one of having to stop in the box due to the presence of stationary vehicles (in front of you). So, on the face of it, the video shows no contravention, but whether an adjudicator will accept this is another matter. What is certain is that the council will not give way if you subit reps on this basis.

The fact is, from the video, you did not have to stop as there was room for you to exit. The only puzzle is why didn't you ? Do you understand the restriction imposed by a yellow box junction ?
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Mocede
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 10:53
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 08:30) *
Looks like you stopped short for some reason and had room to exit the box so no contravention and it was quite short anyway.

Why did you stop and not move up behind the car in front?


Thanks for your reply.
I was actually lost in London that day, I travelled from Cardiff and my tom tom decided to freeze and go into a restart loop when I got onto Romford road. I can't even recall that moment in the video. I tried so hard to remember but I just can't🤦🏻‍♂️.

I don't really know why I didn't move up behind the car in front. I normally would do otherwise. My only explanation is I must have been focusing on the tom tom to load up or I think the cars ahead stopped for no reason, traffic lights were green.
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Incandescent
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 11:16
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OK. so if you are up for a double-or-quits gamble, don't pay but stand your ground and submit reps on the basis discussed here, and eventually leading to London Tribunals.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 11:28
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An initial appeal to council will see them reoffering the discount if they reject.

Always post a draft here first for comment.
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Mocede
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:02
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 12:28) *
An initial appeal to council will see them reoffering the discount if they reject.

Always post a draft here first for comment.


Hi thanks all for your time and help.
I decided to submit my reps as follows:

There was not any stationary vehicles present when I entered the box box junction.
On approach further up the road a vehicle had stopped suddenly causing the ripple of stopping to the traffic behind.
Traffic lights were on green and I did not impose any restrictions to any vehicles as there was plenty of room ahead,had any vehicles approached otherwise I did not want to cause the driver ahead alarm and distress by getting too close to his vehicle.

Is this ok or am I missing something here? I'm not a good writer I rarely need to write anything except in this case.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:22
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That's not right - have you sent it?
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Mocede
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:25
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 18:22) *
That's not right - have you sent it?


As you suggested I posted up draft so not sent.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:30
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No rush - one of us will do something for you later.
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Mocede
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 17:46
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Ok thanks

Not sure how the tribunals for pcn work but can someone please clarify if it did go to that stage then would I need to attend the tribunal?
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cp8759
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 17:12
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QUOTE (Mocede @ Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 18:46) *
Ok thanks

Not sure how the tribunals for pcn work but can someone please clarify if it did go to that stage then would I need to attend the tribunal?

You never *have to* attend the tribunal, it's always up to you whether you want to have a hearing in person, or just ask them to decide based on the available evidence.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Mocede
post Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 18:34
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Any templates to write my representations to newham council will be greatly appreciated. I'm sure I need to send it off by the end of 14 days starting from 17/04/19. Thanks in advance.
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stamfordman
post Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 19:49
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I would send this but wait for others to confirm.

Dear Newham,

I wish to appeal PCN no xxxxxx on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

As you can see from your video, I did not stop in the box owing to the presence of stationary vehicles as I had a full exit space ahead of me. I cannot recall exactly why I stopped, but regardless, I understand that a contravention only occurs if my exit is directly blocked by a vehicle, which is clearly not the case on this occasion.

Further, the stop was only for a few seconds and so was trivial.

Therefore I welcome your early cancellation of this PCN.

Yours
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Mocede
post Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 22:50
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Ok thanks, that's really good in my opinion! I'll wait to see what's others say.
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Mocede
post Sun, 28 Apr 2019 - 23:05
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 26 Apr 2019 - 20:49) *
I would send this but wait for others to confirm.

Dear Newham,

I wish to appeal PCN no xxxxxx on the grounds that the contravention did not occur.

As you can see from your video, I did not stop in the box owing to the presence of stationary vehicles as I had a full exit space ahead of me. I cannot recall exactly why I stopped, but regardless, I understand that a contravention only occurs if my exit is directly blocked by a vehicle, which is clearly not the case on this occasion.

Further, the stop was only for a few seconds and so was trivial.

Therefore I welcome your early cancellation of this PCN.

Yours


I will have to submit this tomorrow just in case the council reject reps.
That way I will still be eligible for the £65 half price offer within 14 days.
Will update on here the verdict from newham.

Thanks to all those who have helped me, especially Stamfordman - can't thank you enough for your kindness.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 29 Apr 2019 - 07:29
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I couldn't think of anything better - if rejected I'm sure someone will have a close look at the PCN for any fault on it.
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Mocede
post Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 10:10
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Thanks. Hope it doesn't get rejected. I had to fax it yesterday because the council stated they will need to receive reps by 14 days end. Is it usually dead around here?
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