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No Card ....Only Cash
dan79
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 07:55
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Really annoying one to get, I had my wallet stolen on Saturday so have no card until Friday at least. I parked in a usual place I park every week but I couldnt use the app because my card wouldnt go through, so I went to the machine to pay cash, but its a fairly new machine that only takes card I go to the other one its the same. In the past I have used cash there, but I cannot now, I was olny there an hour, I left a big sign in the windscreen window but obviously no disgression would be given. I will put ticket up later.

What will the council say that I should have borrowed a card?

Any help greatly appreciated.

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post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 07:55
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hcandersen
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 08:16
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I parked in a usual place I park every week but I couldnt use the app because my card wouldnt go through, so I went to the machine ...

If you park regularly, possibly every day, then you know full well how the machines work.

I'm not surprised your card didn't go through, you'd cancelled it, hadn't you! After all it had been stolen and you had notified your card issuer, hadn't you?

Full account pl.

When you park you must have the wherewithal to pay. If you knew your card was not useable, then this would not count. And if you didn't have cash....
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dan79
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 09:14
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 08:16) *
I parked in a usual place I park every week but I couldnt use the app because my card wouldnt go through, so I went to the machine ...

If you park regularly, possibly every day, then you know full well how the machines work.

I'm not surprised your card didn't go through, you'd cancelled it, hadn't you! After all it had been stolen and you had notified your card issuer, hadn't you?

Full account pl.

When you park you must have the wherewithal to pay. If you knew your card was not useable, then this would not count. And if you didn't have cash....


No you have this wrong firstly I had no idea the machines had changed to card only...where can I find the information of when they changed? I walked to the machine with cash expecting to pay. I park there once a week or once every two weeks.

Yes I understand about the card but maybe I didnt explain it well but I was fully aware I would possibly have to pay cash, I use three different apps to park and in the past I havent always been refused unless it was the end of the month when they take the money out, they have still worked.

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4718017,-0....33;1b1!2i50

I dont know how far back google maps can go but from this link I can see the machines are still cash not card only.





I usually park on Abercrombie Street. Thanks
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hcandersen
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 12:27
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You've changed tack from 'I parked in a usual place I park every week' to 'once a week or once every two weeks'.

Pl don't give an account you think might give you an 'out' as and when different aspects of the law are unveiled in posts.

Just the facts.

I use ** app. This works on the basis of credit with my monthly charges being paid automatically at month end or what?

If you cancelled your cards, you haven't dealt with this point, then what effect would this have had on use of the app?

And if the machines do not take credit or debit cards then the issue of your cards being stolen is irrelevant.

I parked, I tried to use the app which I have done regularly ** a week for at least ** months but for some reason it did not work. I did not have the wherewithal in any other form.

I still don't know the full account and going off at a tangent by wondering when the machines changed is not really helpful at this stage.
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dan79
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 13:34
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I work in Schools sometimes its term time only sometimes they only need me every other week depending on what they desire on a temly basis so it is changeable. I think I may be confusing the situation.

In the past I have sent my parking records to councils to prove I use the area regularly and this has helped my case thats why I added it.

Its my understanding they should give you the opportunity to pay is this not correct, I generally pay there by the app with my card(it is stored on the app), but in the past I have paid here with cash, knowing that my card has been stolen and that I could not pay this way my only option is surely to pay with cash but if the machine has recently changed without my knowledge is this honeslty fair in your opinion, I understand I could have possibly paid with someone elses card maybe, but as stated I wasnt aware the machines had changed and I clearly put a sign in my car window (I understand this means nothing).

Hopefully this is a bit more clear.

My main point being if you dont have your bank card in that area you cannot possibly park there but how was I supposed to know they had changed it to card only. My job means I work all over and park in lots of places.

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stamfordman
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 13:51
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A lot of councils have either ended cash payments at meters or removed the meters. It's not the council's fault that you couldn't pay by card.

If there has been a recent change to remove cash then that's an angle. Otherwise all you have is discretion.

The machine does say 'no coins? pay by mobile' from March 2018 so it must be a fairly recent change - is that sticker still there?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4710282,-0....33;1b1!2i22

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 13:52
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dan79
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 14:22
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Sorry for any confusion here is the ticket





QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 13:51) *
A lot of councils have either ended cash payments at meters or removed the meters. It's not the council's fault that you couldn't pay by card.

If there has been a recent change to remove cash then that's an angle. Otherwise all you have is discretion.

The machine does say 'no coins? pay by mobile' from March 2018 so it must be a fairly recent change - is that sticker still there?

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4710282,-0....33;1b1!2i22


It was definitely a different machine when I wen't last time a more morden one I can't remeber the sticker but would assume it was different as card only.
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Incandescent
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 16:29
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Unfortunately Merton have form for ruthlessness and venality so it is likely any informal appeal based on what you have told us will fail. No harm in trying however !

As I see it, you would need to explain that you normally used Pay-by-Phone, but due to robbery of your wallet, you had had to cancel the card used for PbP, so anticipated paying cash, but found unexpectedly that the machines had been changed to only accept cards.

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dan79
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 16:37
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 16:29) *
Unfortunately Merton have form for ruthlessness and venality so it is likely any informal appeal based on what you have told us will fail. No harm in trying however !

As I see it, you would need to explain that you normally used Pay-by-Phone, but due to robbery of your wallet, you had had to cancel the card used for PbP, so anticipated paying cash, but found unexpectedly that the machines had been changed to only accept cards.


It isnt Merton its Wandsworth and in the past they have been lenient, not saying they will but im willing to take this further for the fact I was willing to pay walked to the machine and was not able to.

Do you have or know how to get info on when machines get installed?

Regards

Do you need to see all of the pictures the guy took.....heres one which has my actual note in it............................

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Incandescent
post Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 17:54
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QUOTE
Do you have or know how to get info on when machines get installed?

As part of your informal reps, you should state that the machines being card-only came as a shock, so must have been installed very recently, so you are surprised there were no advance warning notices. This should prompt them to state when the machines were installed.
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dan79
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 10:17
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Thu, 11 Apr 2019 - 17:54) *
QUOTE
Do you have or know how to get info on when machines get installed?

As part of your informal reps, you should state that the machines being card-only came as a shock, so must have been installed very recently, so you are surprised there were no advance warning notices. This should prompt them to state when the machines were installed.



Ok Thank you
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Mad Mick V
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 22:12
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OP------you need to ask for the TMO which amends this parking bay from P&D. If there has been no amendment then I suspect the original Order is extant and thereby your ground is that you had cash and it was supposed to be P&D.

Payment by card or PBP cannot be a default situation if the Order states P&D.

Mick
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hcandersen
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 13:02
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OP, I am still confused..although some may say this doesn't take much.

Did you or did you not have the wherewithal to pay when you parked based on your knowledge of prevailing factors?

You have now said that you couldn't use the app; and
You didn't have credit/debit cards, because they'd been cancelled and not replaced.

So if the machines took cards and cash, you would have needed cash in any event.

And if they took cash only, you needed cash.

I cannot reconcile your account with you not having cash.

Help me.
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dan79
post Wed, 24 Apr 2019 - 22:26
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 13:02) *
OP, I am still confused..although some may say this doesn't take much.

Did you or did you not have the wherewithal to pay when you parked based on your knowledge of prevailing factors?

You have now said that you couldn't use the app; and
You didn't have credit/debit cards, because they'd been cancelled and not replaced.

So if the machines took cards and cash, you would have needed cash in any event.

And if they took cash only, you needed cash.

I cannot reconcile your account with you not having cash.

Help me.


I did have cash to pay on the day hope this helps
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hcandersen
post Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 07:24
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So, reordering your account....

On *** I parked at the location where I had parked numerous times before.

On my last visit, the machines took cards and cash. I use my **** card through the *** app. However, on this occasion I couldn't use any app related to my cards because these had been stolen along with my wallet on ***. I was therefore reliant on cash for all transactions for the best part of a week until new cards arrived. But as I knew the applicable tariff I made sure I had sufficient funds to pay when I parked.

Unfortunately, when I attempted to pay I noticed that the machines had been converted to accept cards only.

If this is true then what else can you say?

Their response could that these were converted *** months ago and you should have known or similar.

But only you and the council know when they were, and only you know if they only accepted cards the last time you parked, this aspect is not a legal issue but simply one of facts.

You're just past the 14-day period, but don't worry, just get your challenge in as soon as you can.
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dan79
post Wed, 1 May 2019 - 19:41
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 25 Apr 2019 - 07:24) *
So, reordering your account....

On *** I parked at the location where I had parked numerous times before.

On my last visit, the machines took cards and cash. I use my **** card through the *** app. However, on this occasion I couldn't use any app related to my cards because these had been stolen along with my wallet on ***. I was therefore reliant on cash for all transactions for the best part of a week until new cards arrived. But as I knew the applicable tariff I made sure I had sufficient funds to pay when I parked.

Unfortunately, when I attempted to pay I noticed that the machines had been converted to accept cards only.

If this is true then what else can you say?

Their response could that these were converted *** months ago and you should have known or similar.

But only you and the council know when they were, and only you know if they only accepted cards the last time you parked, this aspect is not a legal issue but simply one of facts.

You're just past the 14-day period, but don't worry, just get your challenge in as soon as you can.


I got it in thanks probably not as sophisticated as yours but got something in thanks... we wait now :-)
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dan79
post Tue, 18 Jun 2019 - 19:26
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I havent received a letter but I checked the website and the amount has gone up to 130. I have recently moved would that affect it, normalliy I would assume this but I recently got a speeding ticket sent to my new address.

I'm a bit concerned as have no time frame and ive only just found this post agsin after checking thier site a week ago.
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cp8759
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 11:33
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Show us the letter you have received, if they've increased the charge too early then it's an easy win.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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dan79
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 13:28
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I havent rwcieved a letter thats my point, but ive also recently moved. I checked the website as I was concerned and the fee has gone up should I contsct them?
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John U.K.
post Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 14:41
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QUOTE
I havent rwcieved a letter thats my point, but ive also recently moved

What is the address on your V5C? Physically check it.

How did you submit your challenge? If online/e-mail did you get an automatic receipt?

Did you advise Council of current address in your challenge?

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