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TfL Code 46 - How to appeal
jayu619
post Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 23:08
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Hi All,

My father got a ticket for parking on a red route, outside the times of 10am-4pm...e parked at 5pm.
Below are picture of the PCN. Can anything be done to get out of paying:













My father parked facing traffic, and missed the sign post showing the times allowed to park, which was 10 to 4pm.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jay
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post Mon, 25 Feb 2019 - 23:08
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 08:19
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GSV---

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/130+Com...33;4d-0.0634041

At least 3 signs in that stretch----so missing them or not bothering to look --is a non starter.

The only possible defence might be not at that location-- 140-150 Commercial Road. YTL Fashions are no.150 so was the car directly outside?

Last I would ask for a copy of the video since TfL have a habit of timing glitches.

Otherwise bang to rights.

Mick
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cp8759
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 11:15
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Call TFL and ask for the video, they will put the case on hold and send you (or your father, depending on who the registered keeper is) a DVD in the post.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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Incandescent
post Tue, 26 Feb 2019 - 12:06
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QUOTE
My father parked facing traffic, and missed the sign post showing the times allowed to park, which was 10 to 4pm.

OK, he missed it when driving in to park, but did he then go and look at the sign ? If he did and then drove off, I can see this a win at adjudication, but if he just ignored the sign and trotted off to the shops then I think he's on a loser
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jayu619
post Wed, 27 Feb 2019 - 22:36
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Hi All

Thank you for your advice and input
I suspect he knew the signs and still parked.
Anyway, have sent off a letter to TfL to provide a copy of their evidence in relation to the penalty charge.
Just a question - we've moved homes so the address to which the car is registered will be at our old house. In our letter to TFL, I mentioned that they ought to send it to the new address. Are they required to do so? And how long does it take for the evidence to come through?

Thanks in advance,
Jay
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Starworshipper12
post Wed, 27 Feb 2019 - 22:44
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Do you have mail redirection set up? If not then probably a good idea to do this ASAP.

This post has been edited by Starworshipper12: Wed, 27 Feb 2019 - 22:49
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cp8759
post Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 09:51
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QUOTE (jayu619 @ Wed, 27 Feb 2019 - 22:36) *
Hi All

Thank you for your advice and input
I suspect he knew the signs and still parked.
Anyway, have sent off a letter to TfL to provide a copy of their evidence in relation to the penalty charge.
Just a question - we've moved homes so the address to which the car is registered will be at our old house. In our letter to TFL, I mentioned that they ought to send it to the new address. Are they required to do so? And how long does it take for the evidence to come through?

Thanks in advance,
Jay

If you haven't already sent the V5C to DVLA, do so immediately. It's a criminal offence not to do so.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 10:40
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As you have the PCN, it must have got to you somehow.

You suggest your address has changed, but don't say when.

Post your letter to the authority, docs and notices are the bread and butter of this procedure.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 11:07
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DancingDad
post Thu, 28 Feb 2019 - 11:25
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Tell TFL that the RK address has changed, that DVLA have been notified and that any further correspondence and Notices must be sent to ???? New Address.
Include a copy of utility bill or council tax register or bank statement (obviously in his name and with correct address) as evidence of address change.

Not sure how he got the PCN unless mail redirection or collection of some sort but get the above to TFL now.
Preferably by email and keep a copy.
This is your get out of jail free card should the worst happen and notices go astray from being sent to old address.
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jayu619
post Mon, 18 Mar 2019 - 23:22
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Hi All,

Thank you for the above replies.
PCN got to him because parents still have the property, so have been going there to collect letters etc. Safe to say, the RK details were requested to be changed at the time of posting the PCN here.

Anyway, TfL have responded with evidence. Please see below:





Is there any chance of winning this? Or is this bang to rights?

Thanks in advance all.

Jay
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cp8759
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:08
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Call TFL and ask for the video, rather than still images.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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jayu619
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 12:08
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 11:08) *
Call TFL and ask for the video, rather than still images.


Hi - thank you.
Asking for the video rather than still images, how will that help?
Thank you,
Jay
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cp8759
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:17
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It will show us what evidence the adjudicator would be looking at to make a decision.

If it shows your dad walking up to the sign, reading it, and then deciding to stay parked there, we know it's a hopeless case. I'm not going to speculate on other scenarios, but without seeing the video we don't know if it's worth making an appeal or not.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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jayu619
post Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 15:42
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 19 Mar 2019 - 13:17) *
It will show us what evidence the adjudicator would be looking at to make a decision.

If it shows your dad walking up to the sign, reading it, and then deciding to stay parked there, we know it's a hopeless case. I'm not going to speculate on other scenarios, but without seeing the video we don't know if it's worth making an appeal or not.


OK - understood, that explains alot.
I will phone them now and see what TfL say.

Thanks again for clarifying.
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jayu619
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 07:09
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Hi Guys -

I received the dvd disk with footage however, it does not seem to play on the ps4 nor xbox one. Our laptops at home do not have a DVD drive/
I will try the disk at work to see if that does anything.

If not, where do we stand?
Thanks,
JayU
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hcandersen
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 10:52
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As regards the video:

@cp It will show us what evidence the adjudicator would be looking at to make a decision.


The still must also show this same evidence:

a)to make available at one of its offices specified by him, free of charge and at a time during normal office hours so specified, for viewing by him or by his representative, the record of the contravention produced by the approved device pursuant to which the penalty charge was imposed; or

(b)to provide him, free of charge, with such still images from that record as, in the authority’s opinion, establish the contravention.


IMO, if by virtue of the video the authority introduce new and material evidence which is not shown in the stills then this could be argued to be a procedural impropriety and prima facie evidence of failing to act fairly.

The stills appear to show a vehicle stationary from 17.06.05 to 17.07.09.

And if the person shown in still 2 is walking to the vehicle in order to move it......
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jayu619
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 10:55
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Hi -

I was able to see the footage on a desktop PC.
Footage doe snot show my father looking at the sign or anything.
Just when the camera operator started recording (from the clip) at 17.05, the car was stationary for the entire length of the clip.

Camera starts at 17.05 and PCN time is 17.07 - is this something to fight with?
Or is he bang to rights?

Do advise.
Many thanks,

JayU
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jayu619
post Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 13:58
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 9 Apr 2019 - 11:52) *
As regards the video:

@cp It will show us what evidence the adjudicator would be looking at to make a decision.


The still must also show this same evidence:

a)to make available at one of its offices specified by him, free of charge and at a time during normal office hours so specified, for viewing by him or by his representative, the record of the contravention produced by the approved device pursuant to which the penalty charge was imposed; or

(b)to provide him, free of charge, with such still images from that record as, in the authority’s opinion, establish the contravention.


IMO, if by virtue of the video the authority introduce new and material evidence which is not shown in the stills then this could be argued to be a procedural impropriety and prima facie evidence of failing to act fairly.

The stills appear to show a vehicle stationary from 17.06.05 to 17.07.09.

And if the person shown in still 2 is walking to the vehicle in order to move it......


Hi Hcanderson,

The person in still 2 is not my father unfortunately...
Even when the clip ends, the vehicle is still stationary - so father did not go to move during the 2 minutes of video footage.

I am thinking to just pay up...unless there is another angle we can try?

Thank you,
JayU
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jayu619
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 12:08
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Hi Guys -

Just following up on the above, if anyone has recommendations or if I should just pay the fine...

Thanks
Jay
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cp8759
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 18:46
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I'm sorry to say I struggle to see how you could win here. See what others say but don't miss the discount deadline.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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