CEL PCN recieved |
CEL PCN recieved |
Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 23:28
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
Hi guys,
Driver of the car went to a late night desert place (24/11/2018) and parked on a non-lit car park just across from the place, they were there for just shy of 3 hours according to the letter, from 20:53 till 23:50 and they're trying to fine for £60 if paid within 14 days or it goes up to £100 thereafter. The PCN was issued on the 30/11/2018, I received the letter on 05/12/2018 The parking area states it's for permit holders according to the letter but at the parking area there wasn't any obvious clear signage due to the poorly lit area, I'm just curios as to whether I can dispute this and how the best way to go about it was The letter received was from CEL, what other information do i need? Thanks in advance! This post has been edited by ElmoCool: Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 07:33 |
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 23:28
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 23:45
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Edit your post to remove any hint of who was driving
The driver recently went etc |
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Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 07:35
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
Done, sorry... not used to the forum stuff
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Fri, 7 Dec 2018 - 09:51
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Get the driver to go back and take photos at the same time without using flash to show that the signs can't be seen.. Then with flash so that the signs can be read ans commented on.
If this is permit holders only then as the driver did not have a permit then there was no contract to park and therefore no breach of contract nor agreement to pay. The only claimant is the landholder for nominal trespass. That's why we need the signs. |
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Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 20:50
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
The driver returned to take some images, the first one here without flash https://gyazo.com/65ecc63909202534dc54cb0c6a27251a
and the second one with flash https://gyazo.com/95d043bac02e7c2320adfa245b651a0b the camera has auto features for making dark images brighter whether that is a factor? Also the site is on a one way road so the entrance is to the left of the sign and from the image the one way system heads to the right of the image so the sign isn't facing the drivers direction upon entering the car park |
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Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 20:58
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
We could doi with a few more pics that show the sign in context and to illustrate the description you have given in post #5.
Meantime, please post a GSV link. -------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 22:38
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
That looks as though the flash was used in both. Turn the Auto feature off.
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Mon, 10 Dec 2018 - 23:02
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
here's a GSV link https://www.google.com/maps/@53.7586135,-2....6384!8i8192
He's going to go back tomorrow to get some better photos |
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Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 18:46
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
Please clarify the name of the PPC. CEL are members of BPA and use POPLA. Those signs, your pics and GSV, appear to have IPC logos.
Please post a copy, front and back, of the PCN, redacting any identifying details. -------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 20:17
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
Here's the front of the letter https://gyazo.com/5a439822c9ba55ea80cd8ca05b67f153
and here's the rear https://gyazo.com/75f841fc53c27e746d46795264b36fe4 |
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Tue, 11 Dec 2018 - 20:53
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,503 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Non-PoFA - easy win at POPLA should they want to go there.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:52
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
So should the driver initiate the appeal process through their website first?
This post has been edited by ElmoCool: Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 19:53 |
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Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 23:12
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Yes of course, but NEVER the driver!
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Fri, 14 Dec 2018 - 09:25
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
The KEEPER does everything
The driver plays no part inthe appela process. |
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Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 11:19
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
Okay so the keeper is initiating the appeal process under the grounds that the ticket violates the PoFA?
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Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 11:52
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Yes
The NtK does not mee thte strict conditions set out in POFA Schedule 4 para 9 (this assumes you never got a windscreen ticket) to hold the keeper liable You can specify which failures here if you want, or leave it for the likely rejection and then appeal at POPLA. |
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Wed, 9 Jan 2019 - 21:46
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: 6 Dec 2018 Member No.: 101,335 |
Hello everyone happy new year!
Only just got round to this as it escaped the mind, as expected they denied the initial appeal, would this now mean the keeper can go to POPLA with this code and submit an appeal on the same grounds or is there anything extra to add before it gets sent? This post has been edited by ElmoCool: Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 19:41 |
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Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 09:05
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
So where is your POPLA appeal? You are running out of time.
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Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 11:03
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Well yes, five mionutes of reading around tells you to submit a POPLA appeal
WHich times out in 28 days from generation You draft your appeal here Your research, which you must have done, will have shown you the lengthy appeals that get sent to POPLA. |
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Thu, 10 Jan 2019 - 17:50
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Very easy to copy/adapt one someone did earlier, and you could find one in an evening of reading similar threads on here or on MSE.
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