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[NIP Wizard] Dangerous Driving charge – alleged crossing double white lines whilst using overtaking lane.
boofont
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:39
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - June 2018
Date of the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): -
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Recorded
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was travelling on the A96 heading east toward Aberdeen. At the eastern end of the Mosstodloch by-pass the traffic was held up at the roundabout by a biker blocking the road. He was doing this to let a stream of other bikers out of the road to the left of the A96 (the old A96 which runs through Mosstodloch). Rough guess, there was approximately 40-50 bikers and my initial thoughts were that there was a bike rally going on. I tucked in behind the bikers and followed them east on A96 on the single carriageway between the eastern Mosstodloch roundabout and the western Fochabers roundabout. This is a single carriageway section about 800m in length with a 40 mph speed limit. The bikes were travelling around 15 to 20 mph max. At the end of this section of road as it joins the western Fochabers roundabout it splits in to two lanes in preparation for the forthcoming overtaking lane on A96 Fochabers by pass which starts on the exit of the roundabout. I took the RH lane, the bikers were in the left. Both lanes have straight ahead arrows and “A96” painted on them. I started to overtake in the right hand lane around the roundabout. The head of the trail of bikers was up ahead. They had taken the exit left of the roundabout and were in the LH lane of the A96 by-pass. I continued in the RH lane and exited left to the A96 on to the RH overtaking lane. I accelerated and continued to overtake the bikers in the overtaking lane. As I was doing this the bikers in front of me began to move right clearly trying to block me. I moved right to avoid them and ensure a safe overtake but in doing so I allegedly crossed the double white lines and in to the opposite carriageway. There were no other cars coming, it was safe to do bar the alleged crossing of the lines. Unsure what to do I continued with the overtake of the trail of bikers as I felt this was the safest option. Difficult to say but they were still going very slow, around 20 – 30 mph maybe. To my horror as I came toward the front of the trail I saw a funeral hearse and it dawned on me why they were going so slow. At this point I was very nervous and on edge. I was aware that I may have just broken the law, and that there was a lot of bikers and they would be upset. Also, a single biker began to chase me. I continued to overtake the funeral hearse on the RH overtaking lane. To my shock he too began to swerve right to block me. With a biker chasing me I moved right to overtake I can’t be sure but I might have crossed a white line here but I don’t think so. It was the end of the overtaking lane and I think I just nipped in as it closed to a single carriageway. If I did cross it, there was a cross hatch area on the other side rather than a carriageway – if that makes sense. Again, there was no traffic coming the other way.
At this stage I was in a real panic and was very scared. The biker continued to close me down until he came up next to the drivers door/window. He was shaking his fist at me and trying to get me to stop, that kind of thing. I was ******** myself putting it midly. I carried on and he slowed down. At the next roundabout at the western end of the Fochabers by-pass I carried on the A96. I didn’t see were the bikers went but I assume they took the left turn on the A98.

There were no police around. Just the bikers and the funeral hearse. I was really shaken up with what happened. I felt ashamed for overtaking the funeral hearse although I genuinely had no idea until the last minute. And also the bike chasing me down, I was too afraid to pull in behind the hearse and in front of the bikers. Anyway, I heard nothing more until 12 days later when I got the NIP. I was told the intent was to prosecute me for Dangerous Driving.

Around a month after getting the NIP I was visited by two traffic officers. This was first week of August. They asked if I was driving. I was, so told them so. They then charged me with Dangerous Driving. The charge would be put before the Procurator Fiscal (like the CPS in in England) and I would hear in due course. I have heard nothing as yet.

I asked the officers what evidence they had. They said witness statements and CCTV. I was pleased in some ways about CCTV as I was hoping it would show me being chased. However, I have looked around the area and can see no sign of CCTV at all. I don’t know if there is CCTV or not.

There were a lot of bikers. And I can understand them being upset and angry. I’m upset myself and would have never have overtaken a funeral hearse like this had I known, and not been chased for that matter. When I started to overtake there was bikes everywhere and it all happened so quick I’m not sure I would have felt safe to brake and avoid the bikers ahead that were moving to the right to block me. I felt the safest option was to press on with the overtake. As stated, there was no oncoming traffic at all. I am worried that the bikers will side together against me and make things sound worse than they were and even lie, or not say that I was chased.

So I have been charged with Dangerous Driving. I have never had a conviction of any kind, never had any points and mid to late 40’s old. I travel 70 miles and back each day to work and need my car to do this. I’m really worried about what might happen as I now realise that Dangerous Driving is a very serious charge.

Any help out there please?


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - Scotland

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    Depending on your circumstances, you may wish to consider completing the form, but returning it unsigned. By doing so there is a risk that you will be convicted under s172, which would attract 6 penalty points and a fine; in most cases this is likely to exceed the penalty for the speeding offence itself.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 08 Nov 2018 14:39:41 +0000

This post has been edited by boofont: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 15:17
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post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:39
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:52
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When they say CCTV, the bikers may well have had helmet mounted cameras, they're common nowadays. Have you actually received any paperwork?

The police will always charge you with the highest end offence possible, but the charge might well be knocked down to DWDCA or even just a section 36 contravention of the double white lines (both of which could be dealt with by fixed penalty notice). Without seeing the statements and the CCTV evidence it's impossible to say much.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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boofont
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:56
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:52) *
Have you actually received any paperwork?


Thanks for the reply.

All I have had was firstly the NIP, then the physical visit from the officers.

Anyone any idea how long this can take before I hear anything more? How long have they got to take me to court?

This post has been edited by boofont: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:57
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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 15:09
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It depends on the charge, there is no time limit for a dangerous driving charge.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 16:00
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I'm not sure how receptive a court will be to your claim that it was the safest option I'm afraid, I think many would consider the safest option be slowing and staying in the correct lane.


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TonyS
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 16:13
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To make sure I have the roundabouts correct, is this the stretch where you were overtaking ..
https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6158532,-3....3312!8i6656
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Logician
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:13
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They throw around a dangerous driving charge much more readily in Scotland than in England & Wales, but if the substance of it is that you crossed a double white line when you were being harassed by bikers inside you, and there was no traffic coming towards you, dangerous driving seems completely OTT. Nothing I know of makes it an offence to overtake a hearse.


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cp8759
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:46
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QUOTE (Logician @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 18:13) *
They throw around a dangerous driving charge much more readily in Scotland than in England & Wales, but if the substance of it is that you crossed a double white line when you were being harassed by bikers inside you, and there was no traffic coming towards you, dangerous driving seems completely OTT. Nothing I know of makes it an offence to overtake a hearse.

But again the fact that that's what the police have mentioned doesn't mean it's the charge the PF will pursued. I suspect when the paperwork eventually comes through it will be DWDCA or even more likely just the contravention of the white lines (which is so much easier to pursue).


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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boofont
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 18:16
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QUOTE (TonyS @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 16:13) *
To make sure I have the roundabouts correct, is this the stretch where you were overtaking ..
https://www.google.com/maps/@57.6158532,-3....3312!8i6656


Yes. Right there.
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