Tone to take in guilty plea after Fixed Penalty offer lost in post, what tone to take in guilty plea |
Tone to take in guilty plea after Fixed Penalty offer lost in post, what tone to take in guilty plea |
Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:34
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
I have just received a notice of prosecution from Gwent Police related to a speeding offence in April of this year.
I responded to a NIP/S172 sent to me on 20/4/18 admitting to being the driver at the time of the offence and the paperwork then states that i did not respond to a fixed penalty offer sent on the 30/4/18. I have not receved such a letter, If I had then I would have accepted the fixed penalty as I have already admitted the offence. I was moving house arounf that time and it looks like the letter has got lost in the system somewhere. I did not deny the offence so am going to plead guilty but was just wondering about what tone to take in mitigating circumstances. I'm going to ask for costs not to be awarded as I did not receive the offer and so could not respons. i amaware that they could take the tone that since I did not receive the offer I should still have been aware I should have and called them to query but life just tookover and basically i forgot. Has anyone pleaded guilty in similar circumstances and managed to avoid costs cheers |
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:34
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:57
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,506 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Yes, there's specific Mag's guidance:
QUOTE where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances. You cannot avoid the surcharge (min £30) - so best result would be 3 points, £70 fine, £30 surcharge and no costs order. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:20
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
Thank you, so would it be worth mentioning this in my plea papers or would it be seen by magistrates as being presumptous and they would take into account anyway
Yes, there's specific Mag's guidance: QUOTE where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances. You cannot avoid the surcharge (min £30) - so best result would be 3 points, £70 fine, £30 surcharge and no costs order. |
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:21
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
If you were legally represented, it would be your lawyer’s duty to bring the guidance to the court’s attention. That being so, I don’t see how it could be to your detriment to do likewise.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:51
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:33
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
Update
Didn't make any difference, well not a positive. Just got the result back - 3 pts (expected) £230 fine plus costs of £85 plus £30 victim surcharge = £345 for what would have been a "100 or so if letter hadn't got lost in post - b*stards! |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:41
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
That sounds like an error in sentencing to me, I'd contact the court and ask why it was not considered, and if they failed to consider it at all ask them to re-open the case in the interests of justice and sentence according to the guidance.
For the cost of a letter it sounds worthwhile trying. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:39
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
I'll give it a go
That sounds like an error in sentencing to me, I'd contact the court and ask why it was not considered, and if they failed to consider it at all ask them to re-open the case in the interests of justice and sentence according to the guidance. For the cost of a letter it sounds worthwhile trying. |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:45
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,506 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
s142 Magistrates' Courts Act 1980:
QUOTE A magistrates’ court may vary or rescind a sentence or other order imposed or made by it when dealing with an offender if it appears to the court to be in the interests of justice to do so; and it is hereby declared that this power extends to replacing a sentence or order which for any reason appears to be invalid by another which the court has power to impose or make. ...or the sentence itself can be appealed. This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:45 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:51
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Appealing is of course an option, but it involves an expense that would exceed the potential benefit and as such a risk, the simple letter involves no risk.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:56
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,506 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Absolutely, push the s142 route first.
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:06
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
I have just emailed requesting that course of action.
Thank you all |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 14:53
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
Well, the email requesting a reopening under S142 worked but I have been told I am required to attend in person, I wasn't exepcting that, is it normal?
I would be grateful for any advice on what to expect on the day, it has thrown me a bit tbh, a bit scary, going to court - hardly seems worth their time for a few 100 quid. thank you |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 15:47
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
Well, the email requesting a reopening under S142 worked but I have been told I am required to attend in person, I wasn't exepcting that, is it normal? I would be grateful for any advice on what to expect on the day, it has thrown me a bit tbh, a bit scary, going to court - hardly seems worth their time for a few 100 quid. thank you Yes it would be normal to ask you to attend. Do not be intimidated at the thought of attending court. You should find the experience none too daunting. When you are called in to court you will be asked to say why you'd like the case reopened (which is straightforward enough. The court's Legal Advisor has a duty to help you through the court process. Make sure you take copies of any letters, etc., with you to support your case. You are looking at a difference of £245 which is not to be sniffed at. |
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Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:02
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
Thank you
Yes it would be normal to ask you to attend. Do not be intimidated at the thought of attending court. You should find the experience none too daunting. When you are called in to court you will be asked to say why you'd like the case reopened (which is straightforward enough. The court's Legal Advisor has a duty to help you through the court process. Make sure you take copies of any letters, etc., with you to support your case. You are looking at a difference of £245 which is not to be sniffed at. |
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 15:22
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
Result, after waiting 2 hours, got into court, put forward that I had accpted the offence but the fixed penalty letter had gone astray and asked them to reconsider and quoting the magistrates guidnce given in this thread and they resentenced to just a fixed penalty of £100, no costs, no victim surcharge.
Thanks for the great advice I got on here, saved me £245! |
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:03
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,746 Joined: 29 Oct 2008 Member No.: 23,623 |
Great result! That's a pint you owe each of us!
This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:04 |
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:52
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 18:07
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I’m not sure how there was no surcharge. It’s mandatory.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 18:30
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 22 Sep 2012 Member No.: 57,294 |
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