PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Tone to take in guilty plea after Fixed Penalty offer lost in post, what tone to take in guilty plea
davnig
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:34
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



I have just received a notice of prosecution from Gwent Police related to a speeding offence in April of this year.

I responded to a NIP/S172 sent to me on 20/4/18 admitting to being the driver at the time of the offence and the paperwork then states that i did not respond to a fixed penalty offer sent on the 30/4/18. I have not receved such a letter, If I had then I would have accepted the fixed penalty as I have already admitted the offence. I was moving house arounf that time and it looks like the letter has got lost in the system somewhere.

I did not deny the offence so am going to plead guilty but was just wondering about what tone to take in mitigating circumstances. I'm going to ask for costs not to be awarded as I did not receive the offer and so could not respons. i amaware that they could take the tone that since I did not receive the offer I should still have been aware I should have and called them to query but life just tookover and basically i forgot.

Has anyone pleaded guilty in similar circumstances and managed to avoid costs

cheers

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:34
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:57
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,453
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Yes, there's specific Mag's guidance:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


You cannot avoid the surcharge (min £30) - so best result would be 3 points, £70 fine, £30 surcharge and no costs order.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:20
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Thank you, so would it be worth mentioning this in my plea papers or would it be seen by magistrates as being presumptous and they would take into account anyway

QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 12:57) *
Yes, there's specific Mag's guidance:

QUOTE
where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence
itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point
should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be
imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in
these circumstances.


You cannot avoid the surcharge (min £30) - so best result would be 3 points, £70 fine, £30 surcharge and no costs order.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:21
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,858
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



If you were legally represented, it would be your lawyer’s duty to bring the guidance to the court’s attention. That being so, I don’t see how it could be to your detriment to do likewise.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 13:51
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Thank you smile.gif

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 14:21) *
If you were legally represented, it would be your lawyer’s duty to bring the guidance to the court’s attention. That being so, I don’t see how it could be to your detriment to do likewise.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:33
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Update

Didn't make any difference, well not a positive.

Just got the result back - 3 pts (expected) £230 fine plus costs of £85 plus £30 victim surcharge = £345 for what would have been a "100 or so if letter hadn't got lost in post - b*stards!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:41
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 40,189
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



That sounds like an error in sentencing to me, I'd contact the court and ask why it was not considered, and if they failed to consider it at all ask them to re-open the case in the interests of justice and sentence according to the guidance.

For the cost of a letter it sounds worthwhile trying.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:39
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



I'll give it a go

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 12:41) *
That sounds like an error in sentencing to me, I'd contact the court and ask why it was not considered, and if they failed to consider it at all ask them to re-open the case in the interests of justice and sentence according to the guidance.

For the cost of a letter it sounds worthwhile trying.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:45
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,453
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



s142 Magistrates' Courts Act 1980:

QUOTE
A magistrates’ court may vary or rescind a sentence or other order imposed or made by it when dealing with an offender if it appears to the court to be in the interests of justice to do so; and it is hereby declared that this power extends to replacing a sentence or order which for any reason appears to be invalid by another which the court has power to impose or make.


...or the sentence itself can be appealed.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:45


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:51
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 40,189
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Appealing is of course an option, but it involves an expense that would exceed the potential benefit and as such a risk, the simple letter involves no risk.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 13:56
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,453
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Absolutely, push the s142 route first.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 14:06
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



I have just emailed requesting that course of action.

Thank you all smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 14:53
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Well, the email requesting a reopening under S142 worked but I have been told I am required to attend in person, I wasn't exepcting that, is it normal?

I would be grateful for any advice on what to expect on the day, it has thrown me a bit tbh, a bit scary, going to court - hardly seems worth their time for a few 100 quid.

thank you
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 15:47
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (davnig @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 14:53) *
Well, the email requesting a reopening under S142 worked but I have been told I am required to attend in person, I wasn't exepcting that, is it normal?

I would be grateful for any advice on what to expect on the day, it has thrown me a bit tbh, a bit scary, going to court - hardly seems worth their time for a few 100 quid.

thank you

Yes it would be normal to ask you to attend.

Do not be intimidated at the thought of attending court. You should find the experience none too daunting. When you are called in to court you will be asked to say why you'd like the case reopened (which is straightforward enough. The court's Legal Advisor has a duty to help you through the court process. Make sure you take copies of any letters, etc., with you to support your case. You are looking at a difference of £245 which is not to be sniffed at.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 22:02
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Thank you

QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 15:47) *
Yes it would be normal to ask you to attend.

Do not be intimidated at the thought of attending court. You should find the experience none too daunting. When you are called in to court you will be asked to say why you'd like the case reopened (which is straightforward enough. The court's Legal Advisor has a duty to help you through the court process. Make sure you take copies of any letters, etc., with you to support your case. You are looking at a difference of £245 which is not to be sniffed at.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 15:22
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Result, after waiting 2 hours, got into court, put forward that I had accpted the offence but the fixed penalty letter had gone astray and asked them to reconsider and quoting the magistrates guidnce given in this thread and they resentenced to just a fixed penalty of £100, no costs, no victim surcharge.

Thanks for the great advice I got on here, saved me £245!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:03
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,628
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



Great result! That's a pint you owe each of us! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:04
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:52
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



A virtual certainty biggrin.gif

QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 17:03) *
Great result! That's a pint you owe each of us! biggrin.gif

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 18:07
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,858
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



I’m not sure how there was no surcharge. It’s mandatory.


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
davnig
post Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 18:30
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Member No.: 57,294



Total was 100, maybe it was 70+30?? They did say that were applying the original fixed penalty, does that involve a surcharge

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 6 Dec 2018 - 18:07) *
I’m not sure how there was no surcharge. It’s mandatory.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 13th December 2018 - 02:51
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.