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NIP from Safety Camera Unit Pontypridd, No signs no van and on private drive?
Tiamaria2
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 18:26
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I've just received a NIP from Safety Camera Unit Pontyprodd advising of ALLEGED offence of 42 in a 30 coming out of Builth Wells on A470. I actually saw this guy in a high viz jacket (not the Police) point a hand held small camera at me so I checked my speed and only accelerated when I got to the National Speed Limit sign which I could see ahead of me. There were no signs up, no van and he was perched behind a pillar on a private driveway!! I'd just come from a dog show at the Royal Welsh Showground and was driving carefully so I genuinely am disputing this speed at the point of where the man was. Any advice on what course of action I should now take would be gratefully received. Thanks all
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post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 18:26
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Jlc
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 18:35
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When you say no signs, do you mean camera signs or limit signs?

The usual advice is to ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver and they will usually send the money shot.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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666
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 19:00
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 19:35) *
When you say no signs, do you mean camera signs or limit signs?

The usual advice is to ask for a photo to assist in the identification of the driver and they will usually send the money shot.


Advice as above, then come back for advice if necessary.

Contrary to popular myth, there are no requiremets for signs, visibility etc.

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Tiamaria2
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 19:10
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Sorry I meant no camera signs
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 19:26
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Your account make it sound like you accelerated before passing the NSL signs, is that what you meant?
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Jlc
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 19:28
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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 20:26) *
Your account make it sound like you accelerated before passing the NSL signs, is that what you meant?

Indeed, they may have made another measurement.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 20:15
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Why do you say the person with the speed device wasn’t Police when you now have a NIP from the Police?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Tiamaria2
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:43
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Just to clarify, the man with the camera was not wearing police uniform. Also, I passed him (seeing the camera) and just before the NS signs I started to accelerate away, but literally a few feet before. I can't believe I got up to that speed - thats all I'm saying. How do you check? Your word against his equipment?
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The Rookie
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:49
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Most camera operators are not police officers but are civilians employed by the Police, so as such they 'are the Police'.

You can take it to court, plead not guilty and have the evidence analysed and see if you can prove an an (unlikely) error in the equipment.

You (just) qualify for an awareness course, as it seems you accept you were probably speeding anyway (you'd have to prove you did no more than circa 33mph, maybe even less than 31mph if you get a bloody minded bench, to get a not guilty verdict really) then taking the course seems the pragmatic approach.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 07:59
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Have you asked for the photos yet?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Tiamaria2
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:09
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Thank you all who took the time to respond, really appreciate it. I'll go ahead and ask for photos
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Slapdash
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:48
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To identify the driver. Not for evidence of course.

If you believe it wasn't a policeman have you ever had a warning as a result of a community operation ?

My force claims it will prosecute repeats.

This post has been edited by Slapdash: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 08:54
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cp8759
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 18:00
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QUOTE (Slapdash @ Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 09:48) *
My force claims it will prosecute repeats.

So does mine but when I looked into it their community speedwatch people don't use calibrated equipment so I'm not sure I believe them.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 18:17
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So do mine, but when I pushed them a bit harder ‘If you have enough evidence to convict why are you only issuing warnings?’ They admitted they weren’t confident the evidence would stand up in court at all. And were very unlikely to actually do it. In addition a work colleague has had 3, no NIP/S172 yet.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 13:52
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 19:17) *
So do mine, but when I pushed them a bit harder ‘If you have enough evidence to convict why are you only issuing warnings?’ They admitted they weren’t confident the evidence would stand up in court at all. And were very unlikely to actually do it. In addition a work colleague has had 3, no NIP/S172 yet.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/1613...ers_caught_out/

If you look in the pictures I don't think the community speed watch groups are actually using a Type Approved speed detection equipment although they are now receiving police training on the equipment the speed watch group are using, I think the one pictures is actually a radar gun that can be bough for about £250.00 with the display.

Its kinda like flying into a Gatso its not approved for front facing so therefore even though the camera knows you speeding the force area could write you a warning but not actually anything they can do.
Gwent Police take the evidence form the community speed watch groups and process warning letters only, because the actual device readings don't pass the evidential tests they have in place.
In this case though a single person with a radar/laser device is not conclusive of a speed watch group (theres usually 2-3 of them), I could have been a civilian/gosafe operative working on behalf of south wales police. Builth wells boarders also straddle Dyfed Powys police force area, so a exact location would be better to know if their force area's of SW police force area patch.




This post has been edited by Atrixblue.-MFR-.: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 13:52
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captain swoop
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 22:08
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If it is a hand held unit there may not be pictures to send.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 07:08
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Indeed, although the latest handheld LTI's (I'm sure it's the LTi's) have a video facility.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Lodesman
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 09:34
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 14:52) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 19:17) *
So do mine, but when I pushed them a bit harder ‘If you have enough evidence to convict why are you only issuing warnings?’ They admitted they weren’t confident the evidence would stand up in court at all. And were very unlikely to actually do it. In addition a work colleague has had 3, no NIP/S172 yet.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/1613...ers_caught_out/

If you look in the pictures I don't think the community speed watch groups are actually using a Type Approved speed detection equipment although they are now receiving police training on the equipment the speed watch group are using, I think the one pictures is actually a radar gun that can be bough for about £250.00 with the display.


The instrument looks like a Roadside Technologies RHHS-Scout radar gun. https://roadside-technologies.co.uk/wp-cont...-Data-Sheet.pdf

Five buttons and a screen on the back with a circular front consistent with one of the pictures from the Argus article.

This post has been edited by Lodesman: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 09:39
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