Horizon PCN, Supermarket overstay |
Horizon PCN, Supermarket overstay |
Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:16
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Member No.: 43,806 |
Got the attached ANPR PCN through the door from Horizon on 30 Aug 18. The driver had parked in the supermarket car park whilst shopping at the store. Whilst there the driver met a friend and used the store cafe for coffee and lunch.
Having done research I get the impression that as POFA is not specificalluy mentioned in this ticket it is non POFA compliant? Can someone kindly advise whether I am correct or not. Pending that advice I intend to write to both the CEO and the Manager of said store. I would be grateful for any additional advice anyone can offer. Thanks in advance, Sniper Horizon_page_1.doc ( 343.5K ) Number of downloads: 121 Horizon_page_2.doc ( 468.5K ) Number of downloads: 105 |
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:16
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:23
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Indeed, no keeper liability. Their only wheeze would be that they will state the keeper was driving if they don’t name the driver...
However, it doesn’t work that way. POPLA will uphold such appeals if they don’t... look in recent threads for some relevant wording, post here first if you like. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:36
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Member No.: 43,806 |
Many thanks for the very quick reply. I`m looking at relevant threads now. Should I appeal now or wait the 28 days mentioned in the ticket?
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:37
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
This what you want ?
Sirs Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the warning to the keeper, contrary to section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me. There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Yours etc. They will reject but give you a POPLA number and POPLA will accept a POFA fail Please write the CEO and Manager of that store pointing out that additional charges for using their facilities are an easy way to lose customers. |
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:40
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Unusual wording
Wonder if it's a mistake If it's unpaid after 28 days we will have the right to recover payment from the driver The whole point of the Notice is to warn that, if it's unpaid, they will have the right to recover payment from the keeper |
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:42
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Yep they seem to love that but hope no one will notice. (I didn't on first read)
Probably have several thousands printed with that wording. This post has been edited by ostell: Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 14:43 |
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Fri, 31 Aug 2018 - 18:50
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
QUOTE The driver had parked in the supermarket car park whilst shopping at the store. Whilst there the driver met a friend and used the store cafe for coffee and lunch. Now the appeal is in, also complain as keeper, to the Supermarket Store Manager (Sainsburys) as they can cancel it in seconds. Easier than having to do POPLA stage as well, and all complaints make retailers think again about how annoyed customers are about parking scumbags. |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 19:33
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Member No.: 43,806 |
With sincere thanks to JLC, Ostell, Redivi and SchoolRunMum. Shown below is the letter chain following your advice. Totally successful! I thought it was worth posting in case anyone else can make use.
To HORIZON on 31 August Dear Sir or Madam Ref: PCN XXXXXXXX VRM: XXXXXXXX I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability in this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the warning to the keeper, contrary to section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me. There is no legal requirement for me to identify the driver at the time and I will not do so. Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct. Yours faithfully Sniper To CEO Sainsbury`s on 1 Sept Dear Mr Coupe, I am writing to you regarding a ‘parking charge’ ticket that I received from Horizon Parking. The ticket ref is XXXXXXXX. I have appealed this directly with Horizon as well as writing to you. This charge came as a surprise in the post and was generated via the automatic number plate readers in the car park of your Godalming store. Horizon Parking have contacted me as the registered keeper of the vehicle having obtained my details from DVLA. The car was parked at this store on XX August 2018 between the hours of XX:XX and XX:XX; a duration of 3 hours and 20 minutes. The alleged maximum ‘free’ parking time is three hours. The driver used the store that day for shopping and a meal with a friend. I find it outrageous that, as keeper, I am expected to pay an exorbitant fee (£70) for 20 minutes of parking! I am not obliged to confirm who was driving that day, but the driver is a customer of Sainsbury’s, as am I. There are no signs in the part of the car park where the driver parked the car; signs elsewhere have questionable font size. If the driver entered and left the car park via the filling station entrance no signs would be seen at all. I am disgusted that genuine customers are being ripped off by this unregulated scam. Since our members of Parliament are calling this a “rip off” and a “scam”, why are Sainsbury`s using them at all? All they do is drive away custom. You will be aware that other supermarkets are available in the area and the choice to use Sainsbury’s has resulted in this ridiculous fee. If I am forced to pay this charge, then this is £70 that I am unable to spend in your store and both the driver and I will shop elsewhere in future, as will all my family members. To quote one of our MPs, ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this! I trust that this charge will be cancelled and look forward to your response. Yours sincerely Sniper From Sainsbury`s on 3 Sept Dear Sniper, Thank you for your email that has been received into our Executive Office. I have been asked to look into your complaint and respond on behalf of Mike Coupe. I am sorry to read of your disappointment regarding the car parking ticket you have received while visiting our Godalming store. I have spoken to the store regarding your case, as you have acknowledged there is a three hour time limit for the car park. After carefully reviewing your case, on this occasion the store have agreed to cancel the charge as gesture of goodwill. I hope this brings this matter to satisfactory conclusion. Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0207 695 8900. Kind regards, Shaun Hodson Executive Office Tel: 0207 695 8900 Email: Executive.Office@sainsburys.co.uk twitter.com/sainsburys | facebook.com/sainsburys From Sainsbury`s on 3 Sept Dear Sniper, Thank you for your email. I can advise the store will speak to Horizon and cancel the ticket for you, so you do not need to take any further action in regards to this matter. Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me on 0207 695 8900 Kind regards, Shaun Hodson Executive Office Tel: 0207 695 8900 Email: Executive.Office@sainsburys.co.uk twitter.com/sainsburys | facebook.com/sainsburys I am now awaiting the cancellation letter from HORIZON. Thank you all again. Sniper |
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Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 19:37
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
Brilliant.....with caveats!
Horizon may continue to pursue despite the intervention of Sainsbury's. This should be the end of it but be prepared for more confetti in the post. If it arrives, come back here for more advice. -------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 19:39
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Member No.: 43,806 |
Thanks for that Cabbyman. Is it worth another letter to HORIZON demanding they acknowledge the cancellation by Sainsbury`s? Obviously I`ll retain all the paperwork so far.
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Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 19:45
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,898 Joined: 15 Dec 2007 From: South of John O'Groats, north of Cape Town. Member No.: 16,066 |
NO! The principal has told you the charge is cancelled and they have instructed their agent to that effect. Any more from you will give Horizon a chance to resurrect it.
As I said, you have a result but don't be surprised if you get more letters from the PPC or a debt collector trying to goad you into making a slip. Come back here if they do; hopefully, we will hear nothing from you again....if you know what I mean! -------------------- Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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