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Pedestrian area fine in Italy - debt collection letter received, Debt Collection from Waters & Gate
marcfastcars
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 18:17
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Hello people.

I'm after a bit of advice please...

I was caught driving in a pedestrian area in Rome in July 2016 and received a fine in 2017. The hire car company charged my credit card (approx. €50.00) to provide the Italian authorities with my name and address.

I chose to ignore the actual fine and had forgotten all about it, until now!

Today I've received a letter from a debt collection company called Waters & Gate in North Shields. They're attempting to relieve me of a very generous £287.09. The letter sounds pretty serious and they're using what I would assume are scaremongering tactics to encourage me to pay.

Do I need to pay this? Is there anything further that they can do if I simply ignore them? At the end of the day, I've never actually admitted to driving the car at the time of the offence - for all they know, the hire car company could have incorrectly provided my details as the driver at the time of the offence.

Do they have any legal right to backup what their letter says?

I've attached a picture of the letter (with my details removed) for reference.

Thanks in advance!

For some reason, I can't add an attachment sad.gif

Basically, the letter says:

Instructed by Municipality of Rome to recover full payment relating to the infringement (the infringement details they've given appear to be correct)
We require full payment in 5 days
Failure to pay with incur further costs
Ignoring this letter will result in further action and may affect your ability to obtain credit

Thanks!

This post has been edited by marcfastcars: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 20:05
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post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 18:17
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marcfastcars
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:13
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Sorry, should I have put this in the 'Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices' forum? If so, can a mod please move it?
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southpaw82
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:33
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QUOTE (marcfastcars @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 22:13) *
Sorry, should I have put this in the 'Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices' forum? If so, can a mod please move it?

No. Though why bother asking if you just start a duplicate thread there anyway rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:34


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marcfastcars
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:39
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Apologies, I did ask for it to be deleted as I assumed that it wasn't a speeding or other criminal offence smile.gif
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southpaw82
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:40
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QUOTE (marcfastcars @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 22:39) *
Apologies, I did ask for it to be deleted as I assumed that it wasn't a speeding or other criminal offence smile.gif

No, you asked for it to be moved. I’ve deleted your other thread.


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marcfastcars
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:42
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I did, sorry. My mistake. Thanks for deleting the other thread.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 21:49
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QUOTE (marcfastcars @ Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 22:42) *
I did, sorry. My mistake. Thanks for deleting the other thread.

No problem.


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cp8759
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 22:13
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It's a BS letter, they cannot do anything. The only way a penalty like this can be enforced is if the Italian authorities ask the UK authorities to enforce the penalty through the local magistrates' court. Private companies have no standing to enforce a criminal penalty, and criminal penalties do not affect your credit rating (which confirms these are amateurs who don't know what they're doing).

The only problem with enforcement through the magistrates' court is that, as far as I'm aware, the local court gets to keep the money so there's no financial incentive on the foreign authorities to go down that route.


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nigelbb
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 06:28
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Is this actually a criminal penalty that could in theory be enforced through the magistrates court or is it some sort of decriminalised civil debt? The fact that they are chasing with a DCA indicates the latter.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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The Rookie
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 07:36
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I don't think it indicates anything of the sort, we see lots of criminal events being chased by DCA's in the hope of squeezing some cash out of people.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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marcfastcars
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 09:15
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Thanks for your replies!

cp8759 - what you've said makes sense. I must admit, I'm a bit reluctant to just ignore it but f*** it, what's the worse that could happen?! Saying that, knowing my luck, I'll be sent to an Italian prison for 10 years or something! smile.gif

Cheers!
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nigelbb
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 09:37
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 08:36) *
I don't think it indicates anything of the sort, we see lots of criminal events being chased by DCA's in the hope of squeezing some cash out of people.

If it was an official letter from some body of the Italian state then we would know for sure that it relates to a criminal event. However as it is merely a DCA letter then it may well be a civil debt.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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marcfastcars
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 18:51
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So, any other experiences of similar circumstances?

Cheers
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marcfastcars
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 19:52
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Another letter received, this time it's more threatening...

Any advice? Do I need to be worried?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated! Thanks smile.gif

This post has been edited by marcfastcars: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 12:00
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Churchmouse
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 22:01
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QUOTE (marcfastcars @ Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 20:52) *
Another letter received, this time it's more threatening...

Any advice? Do I need to be worried?

I wouldn't be. It's just the next step on the debt collection ladder, complete with more red ink and (presumably) more ALL CAPS and bold font, before the DC eventually runs out of threats to escalate and leaps off, never to be heard from again...

--Churchmouse
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Slapdash
post Thu, 13 Sep 2018 - 22:41
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Check out the 4th line from then end. Within noth without. Rather reduces their credibility to that of a shower of incompetents.
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marcfastcars
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 21:29
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Thanks for the replies.

I shall continue to ignore them then!

If I was to pay, would Italy even get any of the money?
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Redivi
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 22:51
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You've left all the identification info on that picture - Account Number, Reference Number, Vehicle Registration Number
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The Rookie
post Sat, 15 Sep 2018 - 07:42
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QUOTE (marcfastcars @ Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 22:29) *
If I was to pay, would Italy even get any of the money?

Depends on the arrangement between the Italian authorities and the DCA, that is likley that the DCA will get a cut (fixed or percentage) if they recover, but it could be (I think unlikley) that they have been sold the right to chase the debt and that the Italian authorities already have all the money they are going to get.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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marcfastcars
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 12:02
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Thanks again for the replies. I've removed the pic - not sure what anyone would be able to do with the info on the letter but I guess you never know.

The Rookie - that makes sense, thanks.

Chancers!
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