PCN Vague Location |
PCN Vague Location |
Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 10:33
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
My partner received a PCN from the recently renamed Folkestone & Hythe District Council enforcing parking regulations on behalf of Kent County Council. I posted on here a few months ago the legality of their new PCNs and TROs due to the name change.
However, last week I borrowed her Land Rover Discovery Light Van (built, taxed and insured as a light van) to delivery some light parcels one evening. Parked on DYs for a short period while the parcels were delivered a short distance away as it was the only safe place to sop on the outskirts of Folkestone. Returned to find a PCN on the vehicle, Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours (code 01). No times were seen, so presumably a 24 hour restriction. However, the street was named, but no place name. Was it "Smith Street" in folkestone, Hythe, New Romney or Timbuktu? Does the failure to provide a place name make the pcn invalid? I've had similar issues when the district council was called Shepway when I found some streets in new Romney were actually listed in the TROs as being in the nearby town of Lydd, some 5 miles away from where my vehicle was parked. I'm aware there's exemptions for DYs in the area for vehicles used for the purpose of delivery and collection of postal packets and the like, and those grounds alone would give a good winnable appeal. But, does the vague or lack of location give yet another bit of ammunition? |
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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 10:33
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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 11:24
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
How many Smith Streets are there in the district? I wouldn't have thought that has any legs.
Loading exemption a better bet but 'light parcels' doesn't give confidence. Post the PCN. This post has been edited by stamfordman: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 11:24 |
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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 12:16
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
There are no requirements in the regs for location to be stated, but it is normal for adjudicators to include it as a necessary part of the reason for issue of the PCN, So if the PCN said reason to believe parked in a restricted street at Smith st but you were actually parked on jones st then appeal would most likely be allowed. If you argument is that it could have been smith st in a different town, the adjudicator is likely to take the view that you knew where you parked and refuse
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 12:29
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
The PCN doesn't even say what town, hence my query.
I still can't work out how to post things on here unless it's been simplified recently, despite all the years I've been posting on here! The parcels etc is one I've used before in Shepway appeals and won. |
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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 12:35
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Use a pic site such as Imgur or Flickr.
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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 23:06
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
As stamfordman says use imgur.com or flikr to post the images. Give us a link to the location on Google Street View, and ideally the location of where you were taking the parcels. Was the delivery in the course of work / business or was it a private / personal delivery? How many parcels, and how heavy were they?
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 08:31
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
At the moment you have a PCN that invites you to pay or challenge with the information that if you do neither, then the owner (your partner assuming they are the RK) will get an NTO.
At the moment, you know exactly where you were parked and I would challenge claiming the loading exemption... detail what, invoices, delivery notes whatever as evidence. If it gets to an NTO, this is the classic that the owner was not the driver so would have no first hand knowledge and then could claim uncertain location. |
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Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 19:27
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 6,963 Joined: 19 Dec 2006 From: Near Calais Member No.: 9,683 |
As stamfordman says use imgur.com or flikr to post the images. Give us a link to the location on Google Street View, and ideally the location of where you were taking the parcels. Was the delivery in the course of work / business or was it a private / personal delivery? How many parcels, and how heavy were they? I take what you're saying there, but the exemption does not specify how heavy parcels or packets have to be an whether they're for private or business use. Had they been heavy, it would have been a case of double parking for a while and blocking the narrow side street where they had to be delivered to. It's a registered van, insured for business use and carrying goods in connection with our trade or business. I'll try to get of Flickr and post the PCN later, I find all this downloading stuff via other sites a bit much for my receding brain power, especially when it comes to computers. Old age setting in. |
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Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 19:35
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
This is the key case re loading and is usually followed by adjudicators when finding for an exemption or not
https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/sites/de...r%20Hamlets.pdf -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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