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The 'willing to go to jail to avoid speeding' thread
The Rookie
post Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 09:48
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Maybe rather than keep starting posts we can put them into one as a warning to others

Two speeding events, not his van honest guvnor, jailed for 6 months.


And from the archives under the status of legendary
Andy Roo (ex of this parish)

Chris Huhne and the ex Mrs Huhne

And a future volunteer it seems

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 09:50


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post Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 09:48
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cp8759
post Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 19:29
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 17:27) *
Same could be said of any employee really in many businesses really. Just because she’s a “paralegal” doesn’t mean she’s qualified in the all and “should have known better” which is how I read the reference.

There are many businesses where you don't need any formal qualifications at all, but employers (and their clients / customers) won't want you if you've got a recent conviction for fraud or other dishonesty offences. That's how I saw it, more than the "should have known better" angle, but I take your point.


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southpaw82
post Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 21:00
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 20:29) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 30 Apr 2019 - 17:27) *
Same could be said of any employee really in many businesses really. Just because she’s a “paralegal” doesn’t mean she’s qualified in the all and “should have known better” which is how I read the reference.

There are many businesses where you don't need any formal qualifications at all, but employers (and their clients / customers) won't want you if you've got a recent conviction for fraud or other dishonesty offences.

I agree.


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TryOut
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 12:07
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...and still they come:

https://northyorkshire.police.uk/news/woman...rse-of-justice/

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Jlc
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 12:34
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QUOTE (TryOut @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:07) *

I can quite believe it was a device to help parking...


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DancingDad
post Tue, 7 May 2019 - 12:51
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:34) *
QUOTE (TryOut @ Tue, 7 May 2019 - 13:07) *

I can quite believe it was a device to help parking...


Absolutely.
Means you can get to the parking spot quicker rolleyes.gif
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The Rookie
post Wed, 8 May 2019 - 04:52
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Interesting background to the company selling the device.
https://www.laserjammertests.com/laserpropark.htm


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Churchmouse
post Thu, 9 May 2019 - 23:42
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I don't understand. The effectiveness of these devices has been repeatedly vouched for by no less an authority than Traffic Constable Andy Forth of the North Yorkshire Police, Traffic Bureau. They clearly work as advertised. The company should be rolling in dough (rather than having been struck off in 2009)...

--Churchmouse

This post has been edited by Churchmouse: Thu, 9 May 2019 - 23:43
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The Rookie
post Thu, 30 May 2019 - 13:55
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Six months (not suspended) for deliberately naming someone who wasn't the driver and persisting in lies all the way to court.
https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-n...peeding-2916942


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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ohnoes
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 13:24
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Another one

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-70...t-CCTV-act.html


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DancingDad
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 20:16
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QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:24) *



That one deserved extra time for stupidity.
No fixed cameras on the Heartlands Parkway so would have been a camera van copping him head on.
Clear photo almost guaranteed.
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madbasshunter
post Fri, 31 May 2019 - 22:22
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:16) *
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:24) *



That one deserved extra time for stupidity.
No fixed cameras on the Heartlands Parkway so would have been a camera van copping him head on.
Clear photo almost guaranteed.


Where was a dove when he needed it rolleyes.gif

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/28...-obscures-face/




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Churchmouse
post Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 14:58
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 21:16) *
QUOTE (ohnoes @ Fri, 31 May 2019 - 14:24) *



That one deserved extra time for stupidity.
No fixed cameras on the Heartlands Parkway so would have been a camera van copping him head on.
Clear photo almost guaranteed.

If drivers can now be reliably identified from photographs in such cases, maybe there's longer any justification for a s.172...

--Churchmouse
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cp8759
post Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 17:22
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 15:58) *
If drivers can now be reliably identified from photographs in such cases, maybe there's longer any justification for a s.172...

--Churchmouse

Even if it's not an absolute necessity (the police could pull driving licence photos etc...), by far the most practical and cost effective way to identify the driver is a s172 letter.


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The Rookie
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 03:46
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Mon, 3 Jun 2019 - 15:58) *
If drivers can now be reliably identified from photographs in such cases, maybe there's longer any justification for a s.172...

--Churchmouse

I'm sure if I crash into your car and do a runner you'd be quite happy there was no S172 for the Police to use to trace me as the driver? S172 predates the use of speed/traffic light cameras and will likely post date great photo's from those of the driver as well. Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's and the amount of effort and time and cost involved would be disproportionate anyway. Not your best thought out comment.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 03:48


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Fredd
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 09:22
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.


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cp8759
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:36
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

But it's an incomplete database: many people drive on EU licences, old paper licences etc...


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The Rookie
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 11:03
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QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

I should have been clearer, they have a file of them, but its not a database that is searchable (using a photo and searching for a match)


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Churchmouse
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 11:51
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 12:03) *
QUOTE (Fredd @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 10:22) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 04:46) *
Not withstanding we have no national database of driver photo's

Not unless you count the one that DVLA insist on populating for photocard licences, and that the police have access to.

I should have been clearer, they have a file of them, but its not a database that is searchable (using a photo and searching for a match)

LOL. Facial recognition software is probably not a thing...

I was actually trying to get someone to provide the rationale used in Francis so I didn't have to look it up.

--Churchmouse

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andy_foster
post Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 19:02
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 12:51) *
I was actually trying to get someone to provide the rationale used in Francis so I didn't have to look it up.


Assuming that you are referring to Francis v DPP (2004), off the top of my head it was that it was clearly Parliament's intention that s. 172 RTA 1988 and s. 12(1) RTOA 1988 be used in conjunction and that a signature was somehow 'information' within the meaning of s. 172.

If you are referring to O'Halloran and Francis v the UK, the rationale was somewhat more irrational.


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Churchmouse
post Fri, 14 Jun 2019 - 12:16
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Wed, 12 Jun 2019 - 20:02) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 12:51) *
I was actually trying to get someone to provide the rationale used in Francis so I didn't have to look it up.


Assuming that you are referring to Francis v DPP (2004), off the top of my head it was that it was clearly Parliament's intention that s. 172 RTA 1988 and s. 12(1) RTOA 1988 be used in conjunction and that a signature was somehow 'information' within the meaning of s. 172.

If you are referring to O'Halloran and Francis v the UK, the rationale was somewhat more irrational.


Thanks, I was wondering to what extent the court's justification for ignoring ECHR Article 6 had been based on a government argument that it was not technologically possible to identify the culprit by photograpic means. I now see that the government had argued that "there was no obvious generally effective alternative to the power contained in section 172 and without such a power it would be impossible to investigate and prosecute traffic offences effectively," but it doesn't appear that the court had actually based any of its reasoning on that particular argument. In fact, the court ignored several other arguments as well, including the one which had noted that other European jurisdictions had found ways to prosecute bad drivers without violating Article 6, implying that the UK's approach was clearly not justified by necessity.

--Churchmouse
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