[NIP Wizard] No valid insurance Options

[coke_zero]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Met police
Date of the offence: - 17/1/18
Date of the NIP: - 17/1/18
Date you received the NIP: Verbally
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Swandon way SW11
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Yes
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Brother of the registered keeper
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

Was driving home in my sisters car from doing some shopping - went to refill fuel at petrol station and there was a marked police car sitting there. After I paid, I was approached by the police car and asked who the car belonged to as it's registered to a female. Told them it was my sisters car and they did their checks. They came back and said I am not insured on her policy which, I am not. I have my own insurance policy on my own car and I was not aware that I was not allowed to drive other vehicles. I confirmed with the insurance company over the phone when I took the policy out that I'd be able to drive other vehicles and I was told I would be able to. My mistake but I never actually checked the policy documents as they were never posted to me but were all available online. Had a long conversation with the officers explaining the entire situation to them. They told me the car would be impounded but my sister was on her way home and asked the officers over the phone if she could come to collect the car to avoid it being impounded. They were very reluctant at first but eventually had another call to attend to so left me there with the car to wait for my sister - then told me they'd check that I didn't end up driving it again lol.

I know I probably don't have much luck and my only option would be to take the points but since I already have 9 points this will mean an automatic totting up ban. Would it be worth going to court (perhaps with a motoring solicitor) to argue the case that I was under the impression that I was insured or perhaps ask for a lesser ban like 2 weeks rather than the 6 months.

I'm responsible for taking my mother to her hospital appointments since she's of elderly age and not in the greatest of conditions so it would be a major inconvenience to our lives as I'd have to accompany her by public transport or pay for a cab to take her there and back a few times a week.

Input would be greatly appreciated.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
- Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 09 Jun 2018 17:44:27 +0000

This post has been edited by coke_zero: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 17:55

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[dacouc]

Yes it's fine for those who have quick access to 20k should need be in the event of a 3rd party claim.

Huh? The excess isn't due for 3rd party claims. only self claims.

The excess is payable on any kind of claim whether you're claiming for own damage or a 3rd party claim. It's "all sections excess". In the event of a succesful 3rd party claim, the insurer pays them out and recovers the excess amount from you. That's what a lot of people who take out this kind of policy don't realise the implications and find themselves straddled with thousands of debt.

Made worse by them targeting the high risk / distressed market

I would be surprised if XS Direct even offer Driving Other Cars for any of their customers

[panther12]

Yes it's fine for those who have quick access to 20k should need be in the event of a 3rd party claim.

Huh? The excess isn't due for 3rd party claims. only self claims.

The excess is payable on any kind of claim whether you're claiming for own damage or a 3rd party claim. It's "all sections excess". In the event of a succesful 3rd party claim, the insurer pays them out and recovers the excess amount from you. That's what a lot of people who take out this kind of policy don't realise the implications and find themselves straddled with thousands of debt.

Made worse by them targeting the high risk / distressed market

I would be surprised if XS Direct even offer Driving Other Cars for any of their customers

I read their policy wording and they don't cover DOV. TBH I'm surprised they're allowed to operate in this way but they know how to cover their arses. If there's a dispute regarding who's at fault in an accident, they also tend to side with the 3rd party as it saves them time & money investigating in the knowledge they will recoup it back from the ridiculous excess imposed.

[BaggieBoy]

I'd never heard of that type of excess, I must have lived a sheltered life...

[coke_zero]

Yeah the excess situation is very stupid. But due to the car I have (stupid of me I know), and my 9 points, this was the only reasonable option without having to sell the car. The next best quote I got was in the £5k range. It hardly gets driven anyway and have not had to make a claim in the past 3 years (touch wood).

By the way, the insurance company has not yet gotten back to me or even acknowledged my request. I will try to delay the court proceedings as much as possible. Would it be a wise option to plead not guilty come close to the 21 day deadline? Or will it make zero difference if I do it now.

This post has been edited by coke_zero: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 21:11

[southpaw82]

What do you want to plead not guilty for?

[panther12]

If the initial call recording exists I'd say you definitely need it and might need getting the ombudsman involved if they don't play ball. Others are more knowledgeable regarding the legal side of things but I would have thought, if you can show that you unintentially committed the offence because you were mislead by the insurance co, it doesn't alter the fact that you're guilty (as insurance is an absolute offence - meaning you're either insured or your not with no middle ground) it may be, depending on the sales call, that you can put forward a "special reasons" case not to endorse licence.

[flexeh]

This post made me double check with my insurance company over the DOV, as they sent my renewal, as i would normally "Assume" everything will remain the same apart from the NCD.

[TheDisapprovingB...]

If the initial call recording exists I'd say you definitely need it and might need getting the ombudsman involved if they don't play ball. Others are more knowledgeable regarding the legal side of things but I would have thought, if you can show that you unintentially committed the offence because you were mislead by the insurance co, it doesn't alter the fact that you're guilty (as insurance is an absolute offence - meaning you're either insured or your not with no middle ground) it may be, depending on the sales call, that you can put forward a "special reasons" case not to endorse licence.

Not quite - as you say, it's an absolute offence so if you're guilty, it's a minimum 6 points and £300 fine. No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

What the original recording can do is give you ammunition to complain to the ombudsman. They can find that you were misled by the call, and require the insurer to provide the cover retrospectively - in other words, they can change the policy so that you WERE insured at the time, so that you're legitimately not guilty of the offence.

[Jlc]

No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

SRNTE as mentioned, perhaps? (Requires a guilty plea mind)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:31

[panther12]

No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

SRNTE as mentioned, perhaps? (Requires a guilty plea mind)

Yes that's my understanding of how it works. It can't form part of a defence but in the event of a guilty plea can be used to put forward SPRNE. I think your only hope of this is the fact that you didn't purchase direct from XS but via an agent. XS would have made sure the full terms were explained in the phone recording as they get a lot of complaints so make sure they've covered themselves. An agent may not have been so thorough.

[Logician]

No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

SRNTE as mentioned, perhaps? (Requires a guilty plea mind)

I do not think that a guilty plea as such is required, simply a finding of guilt. I do not believe there is any bar to a defendant found guilty of an offence to which he has pleaded not guilty, then asking the court to consider special reasons, or indeed the court considering special reasons on its own initiative.

[Jlc]

True, but for an absolute offence I can only suggest a guilty plea if insurance was not in place.

[cp8759]

If the initial call recording exists I'd say you definitely need it and might need getting the ombudsman involved if they don't play ball. Others are more knowledgeable regarding the legal side of things but I would have thought, if you can show that you unintentially committed the offence because you were mislead by the insurance co, it doesn't alter the fact that you're guilty (as insurance is an absolute offence - meaning you're either insured or your not with no middle ground) it may be, depending on the sales call, that you can put forward a "special reasons" case not to endorse licence.

Not quite - as you say, it's an absolute offence so if you're guilty, it's a minimum 6 points and £300 fine. No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

The problem here is, whether the OP is deemed to have had insurance or not is a matter for the ombudsman. Until we know whether insurance was in force or not (according to the ombudsman), it's impossible to say much else.

[coke_zero]

I still have not received any sort of communication from the insurance company. I sent them another e-mail on Friday. What would be the best thing to do at this point in regards to pleading guilty or not? And I think it's time to get in touch with the ombudsman.

[cp8759]

I still have not received any sort of communication from the insurance company. I sent them another e-mail on Friday. What would be the best thing to do at this point in regards to pleading guilty or not? And I think it's time to get in touch with the ombudsman.

If you've made a complaint (as opposed to an enquiry) they have to issue and acknowledgment within 5 working days, and a final decision within 8 weeks. Only at that point you have a right to ask the ombudsman to intervene.

So, have you made a formal complaint?

[coke_zero]

I still have not received any sort of communication from the insurance company. I sent them another e-mail on Friday. What would be the best thing to do at this point in regards to pleading guilty or not? And I think it's time to get in touch with the ombudsman.

If you've made a complaint (as opposed to an enquiry) they have to issue and acknowledgment within 5 working days, and a final decision within 8 weeks. Only at that point you have a right to ask the ombudsman to intervene.

So, have you made a formal complaint?

I didn't know that. Nope, it wasn't a formal complaint. It was simply me requesting the information from them along with transcripts / voice recordings.

[cp8759]

I still have not received any sort of communication from the insurance company. I sent them another e-mail on Friday. What would be the best thing to do at this point in regards to pleading guilty or not? And I think it's time to get in touch with the ombudsman.

If you've made a complaint (as opposed to an enquiry) they have to issue and acknowledgment within 5 working days, and a final decision within 8 weeks. Only at that point you have a right to ask the ombudsman to intervene.

So, have you made a formal complaint?

I didn't know that. Nope, it wasn't a formal complaint. It was simply me requesting the information from them along with transcripts / voice recordings.

Make a complaint now, alleging that they mis-sold the policy. The 8 week clock starts from the day after they get your complaint, and it will be dealt with by far more senior / clued up people than the people that deal with general enquiries.

[coke_zero]

I still have not received any sort of communication from the insurance company. I sent them another e-mail on Friday. What would be the best thing to do at this point in regards to pleading guilty or not? And I think it's time to get in touch with the ombudsman.

If you've made a complaint (as opposed to an enquiry) they have to issue and acknowledgment within 5 working days, and a final decision within 8 weeks. Only at that point you have a right to ask the ombudsman to intervene.

So, have you made a formal complaint?

I didn't know that. Nope, it wasn't a formal complaint. It was simply me requesting the information from them along with transcripts / voice recordings.

Make a complaint now, alleging that they mis-sold the policy. The 8 week clock starts from the day after they get your complaint, and it will be dealt with by far more senior / clued up people than the people that deal with general enquiries.

I shall do that ASAP. What am I to do in regards to the SJPN? As the deadline for a response will be this coming Saturday. Cheers.

[disgrunt]

Surely you want to plead not guilty and, if possible, give a brief outline of your defence (specifically requested a policy that allowed DOV when speaking to broker, was sold this policy accordingly, am currently pursuing a complaint against insurance co / insurance broker to request specific performance of contract I entered into i.e. to get them to confirm I was actually insured.)

Wait for others to comment before doing anything though

[cp8759]

You have to make a choice, to either fight the criminal case, or plead guilty at the earliest opportunity and receive any relevant discount on sentence for an early guilty plea.

If you want to fight this at all, your only choice is to plead not guilty. Your chances of success will then be entirely down to whether the insurance company, or as a last resort the ombudsman, can be persuaded to rule that in the circumstances the insurance company should have provided cover at the time you were stopped. If this strategy works, you were insured and have nothing to worry about. If this strategy is not successful, you will have no defence and will be convicted and sentenced.

My opinion is that the insurance company will tell you to get lost (it sounds like that sort of company from what others have said), but the ombudsman are more likely than not to over-rule them on the basis that you've been mislead / treated unfairly (Treating customers fairly is a principle under the FCA handbook and the ombudsman can over-rule any small print if he so chooses), but this needs to be carefully argued to the ombudsman and we cannot guarantee success. Whether it's worth losing the discount on sentence you'd get for an early guilty plea in order to fight this is a decision that only you can make.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 10:44