NIP M62 WB J27 - 28, 73 in a "60" Roads empty.... |
NIP M62 WB J27 - 28, 73 in a "60" Roads empty.... |
Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 18:45
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 2 Mar 2018 Member No.: 96,835 |
Hi,
Just wanting some advice. This is my first speeding fine and I wanted to clarify a few things. I was caught doing 73mph on a motorway. For some unknown reason, the people in the control room (I assume?) decided that the near empty M62 needed to have a reduced speed. Ok.... However, half of the gantry speed signals did not work for the fast lane and the road was clear from Glasshoughton until I came off at the M66 junction. Surely this is stretching it from WYP/Camera operators? I was 3mph over the actual limit, driving safely and with full attention on a perfectly clear motorway I have attached images, though they are very unclear (probably intentional as well...). Its probably my car, my car is black and I can barely see anything so I will go with it being mine. Surely the operators have to be able to justify the reduced limit? If not, then why? A motorway is designated as 70mph and unless there is a hazard (there were none at the time). Otherwise isnt this just needlessly slowing traffic? Also, what points/fine combo can I expect? Is it possible to prove the gantry limit signs were unreliable as they were not always present? Don't take this as me trying to get out of it, if its low points/fine then its hardly the end of the world but if I could challenge it over some questionable tactics being deployed here, then I wouldn't be against it. Also, probably not an issue but they have addressed me as my shorthand name, not my full name. Imagine Matt. over Mathew, or Dave, over David. I would expect documentation like this should carry the full title. This is however how my V5 document names me so I suspect not an issue? This reminds me why I avoid the M62 like the plague. Awful road. Smart motorways are a joke and this is one of the very worst! Thanks for any advice. Also, due to a medical issue I finished work today and have not yet claimed ESA for the short time between finding a less physical job..... So could I accept the 100% of my earnings.... seeing as they are currently £0 per week? Or do you think they might catch onto that one? |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 18:45
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 19:53
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
The signs weren't all displayed, some weren't working at all. The ones ahead of me in the image attached were all working, but the ones prior to that may not have been. The HADECS3 auxiliary camera will take a shot of the actual displayed speed signs with your car passing them. There can be no argument really. Your attachment isn't clear enough to see but here's a better example. -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:00
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#22
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 2 Mar 2018 Member No.: 96,835 |
The signs weren't all displayed, some weren't working at all. The ones ahead of me in the image attached were all working, but the ones prior to that may not have been. The HADECS3 auxiliary camera will take a shot of the actual displayed speed signs with your car passing them. There can be no argument really. Your attachment isn't clear enough to see but here's a better example. Ahh, I didnt realise the top image was the one before. Now it makes sense. For some reason, on neither chrome or firefox, I couldnt enlarge the image. It looks like someone was using an old VGA camera for the pictures tbh, though they will have better quality images available I suspect. I shall get the form sent off and get a speed awareness course hopefully. Though I would like to know what hazard justified the 60 limit. I dont think its right to accept that they might have been, they should specify what it was and why the limit was in place. But thats just my opinion and unlikely to change anything. |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:02
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,510 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Nah, I read something about a whole host of new laws for drivers coming, some of which are related to Smart Motorways. Probably this. These changes are often reported as new 'laws' - take last year's change in sentencing guidelines; the press had a field day with these new 'laws' that seem to confuse... Though I would like to know what hazard justified the 60 limit. I dont think its right to accept that they might have been, they should specify what it was and why the limit was in place. But thats just my opinion and unlikely to change anything. FWIW I empathize but perhaps someone is having a bit of 'lark' to increase revenues... (Without descending into financials of the course/fixed penalty situation) This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:02 -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:04
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
Though I would like to know what hazard justified the 60 limit. TBH i can't see it matters. Whatever the reason doesn't change the fact the limit has to be obeyed. -------------------- |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:16
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#25
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 2 Mar 2018 Member No.: 96,835 |
Nah, I read something about a whole host of new laws for drivers coming, some of which are related to Smart Motorways. Probably this. These changes are often reported as new 'laws' - take last year's change in sentencing guidelines; the press had a field day with these new 'laws' that seem to confuse... Though I would like to know what hazard justified the 60 limit. I dont think its right to accept that they might have been, they should specify what it was and why the limit was in place. But thats just my opinion and unlikely to change anything. FWIW I empathize but perhaps someone is having a bit of 'lark' to increase revenues... I suspect so. Its usually because the public just accepts it because "it is so" that this stuff happens anyway. I drove for quite a while longer along the motorway and there was no sign of any issues but as stated, maybe there was something. I guess I will never know. Maybe one day in the future, someone with more money and time will challenge this point and WYP will have egg on their face once again. There should also be warning signs for Smart Motorways. "Welcome to hell" Though I would like to know what hazard justified the 60 limit. TBH i can't see it matters. Whatever the reason doesn't change the fact the limit has to be obeyed. Thats fine. However, for me, I think they should be able to easily justify why the limit was in place. I expect they keep records of why, so it should be of no issue to them and would help clear up any queries. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-...-herts-34719997 - Things like this are why. And it wouldnt be the first time police forces or councils have done questionable things to raise money. |
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:25
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#26
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
If you've finished asking for help with your case, please take these other issues to the Flame Pit.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Fri, 2 Mar 2018 - 20:28
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#27
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 2 Mar 2018 Member No.: 96,835 |
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Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 18:28
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I suspect so. Its usually because the public just accepts it because "it is so" that this stuff happens anyway. I drove for quite a while longer along the motorway and there was no sign of any issues but as stated, maybe there was something. I guess I will never know. Actually if you want to know the reason why the speed limit was lowered, you can just ask Highways England, you can do this quire independently of the speeding issue. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:39
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 20,919 Joined: 22 Apr 2012 Member No.: 54,455 |
I suspect so. Its usually because the public just accepts it because "it is so" that this stuff happens anyway. I drove for quite a while longer along the motorway and there was no sign of any issues but as stated, maybe there was something. I guess I will never know. Actually if you want to know the reason why the speed limit was lowered, you can just ask Highways England, you can do this quire independently of the speeding issue. A few years ago I was batting happily along the M25 quite late at night on cruis at 70 mph or thereabouts with family in the car, there was some traffic but not a huge amount, all the VSL signs had been un-illuminated. I was suddenly confronted with a 40 limit. No lead down to this at all in the form of 60 > 50 > 40. However I managed to slow down sufficiently to not get flashed by the ubiquitous cash cameras. After this gantry there was then a sign "Fog Ahead". Except there was no fog at all, the night was completely clear, not even a hint of fog So I confronted Highways Agency (as then was) with this. After some delay, I was finally told that a fog sensor had failed and the system put the limit up without human intervention as a "safety measure". I have also suddenly been confronted with a 20 mph.Now this is really playing with people's lives. One day we will have a VSL-induced pile-up, it is only a matter of time. This post has been edited by Incandescent: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:41 |
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Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 23:11
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I suspect so. Its usually because the public just accepts it because "it is so" that this stuff happens anyway. I drove for quite a while longer along the motorway and there was no sign of any issues but as stated, maybe there was something. I guess I will never know. Actually if you want to know the reason why the speed limit was lowered, you can just ask Highways England, you can do this quire independently of the speeding issue. A few years ago I was batting happily along the M25 quite late at night on cruis at 70 mph or thereabouts with family in the car, there was some traffic but not a huge amount, all the VSL signs had been un-illuminated. I was suddenly confronted with a 40 limit. No lead down to this at all in the form of 60 > 50 > 40. However I managed to slow down sufficiently to not get flashed by the ubiquitous cash cameras. After this gantry there was then a sign "Fog Ahead". Except there was no fog at all, the night was completely clear, not even a hint of fog So I confronted Highways Agency (as then was) with this. After some delay, I was finally told that a fog sensor had failed and the system put the limit up without human intervention as a "safety measure". I have also suddenly been confronted with a 20 mph.Now this is really playing with people's lives. One day we will have a VSL-induced pile-up, it is only a matter of time. Oh that's a real shame, it would have been a rare example of where you would have had a good chance of getting the speed limit quashed as Wednesbury unreasonable at JR ;-) This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 23:11 -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 23:18
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
A few years ago I was batting happily along the M25 quite late at night on cruis at 70 mph or thereabouts with family in the car, there was some traffic but not a huge amount, all the VSL signs had been un-illuminated. I was suddenly confronted with a 40 limit. No lead down to this at all in the form of 60 > 50 > 40. However I managed to slow down sufficiently to not get flashed by the ubiquitous cash cameras. After this gantry there was then a sign "Fog Ahead". Except there was no fog at all, the night was completely clear, not even a hint of fog So I confronted Highways Agency (as then was) with this. After some delay, I was finally told that a fog sensor had failed and the system put the limit up without human intervention as a "safety measure". I have also suddenly been confronted with a 20 mph.Now this is really playing with people's lives. One day we will have a VSL-induced pile-up, it is only a matter of time. If you are driving so you can stop within the distance you can see than a sudden speed limit change should be no issue. Some drivers are happy to crack along with the assumption it's a motorway so nothing unexpected can happen. I have done enough miles on the motorway to know what all sorts of things more surprising than a illuminated limit on a gantry can occur, and I have never had an at fault accident as proof. |
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Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 12:53
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 350 Joined: 18 Mar 2015 Member No.: 76,324 |
That's quite a funny read. The worst motorways in the UK are all smart motorways in my experience. They dont aid anything, only serve to cause issues and of course, raise money. But thats another discussion for another time and place. More and more of them are going to go that way, so you're just going to have to get used to it... and the idea is to monitor and adjust the flow of traffic relevant to the conditions, there doesn't specifically have to be a hazard per se triggering the reduced speed limit. Something in itself that can clear up before you reach the point it had actually occurred at (see the classic concertina wave temp traffic jam phenomenon). I do query some of the speed limit alterations I've encountered on motorways, but some of them are genuinely accurate, you may never see the trigger. |
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Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 13:37
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#33
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Take it to the Flame Pit, people.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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