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Careless Driving Notice - car park scrape
Dave18
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 18:58
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Hello,

I received a letter before Christmas to say my car had been reported to the police under careless driving, for not stopping at the scene of an accident. The incident is alleged to have taken place in a supermarket carpark.
My fiancé would have been driving at this time commuting back from work but has never visited the shops let alone the carpark where the incident is supposed to have occurred.

She has attended the police station with a solicitor to give her whereabouts at this time, normal driving pattern etc. We've also had our insurer assess our car and found no damage. The eyewitness gave our registration number but the description doesn't match her at all.

She is attending the police station again tomorrow as they have 'photographic' evidence now. How do people suggest we proceed? Especially if photos are vague?

This post has been edited by Dave18: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 18:59
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post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 18:58
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The Rookie
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 19:13
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Stick to the truth, perjury is a much more serious offence than anything else you/they are likely to face.

If she wasn’t there, she wasn’t there, it may be a similar car, similar reg or whatever so she needs to be calm and credible.

Hopefully you are getting the solicitor at legal aid rates?


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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 19:32
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Presumably if the description doesn't match her at all, neither will the photos. Are there any CCTV cameras that cover the car park?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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Dave18
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 21:09
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No CCTV as far as I could see, i.e no cameras on poles/lampposts in carpark. No Number plate recognition at enterance exit after going there later to have a look, though parked nearby and walked.

This post has been edited by Dave18: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 21:10
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samthecat
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 07:06
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If she's going back to be re-interviewed with some further evidence arrange for her solicitor to come back as well.

If you can get anything showing either she or the car were elsewhere at the relevant times that may be helpful.


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Colin_S
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 08:25
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Does she have a smart phone that tracks her location, eg Google Maps?
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Dave18
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 14:31
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She does have a smart phone but usually has location turned off to save the battery! The solicitor will be in attendance as doesn't charge till a formal interview takes place. Its a case of wait and see what the photo shows but she will act on advice of the lawyer + is fully aware of sticking to facts. After i had to go for a 'chat' at the police station as the owner of the car about I understand how they were trying to twist my words beyond saying she would have been driving at the time into an accusation it was her fault!!
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Spinstorm
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 21:20
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You can charge your phone in your car very easily.

Location services can also be turned off for certain apps but honestly unless your wife literally makes phone calls all day long then the only reason not to have location on to save battery is because she doesn’t charge the phone reguarely and properly.

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Dave18
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 19:00
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Hello,

We have been made aware that the police did send this case to court, but the original summons was sent to our old address, even though details for car and our licenses were updated with DVLA last year when we last moved. All police correspondence has been sent to our current address so bizarre why the summons went to our old address! We have sent back the statutory declaration saying the summons was never received and are presently waiting to hear from the magistrate court about attending to swear that the summons wasn't. So far the police have only provided 3 pieces of evidence on 2 visits to a police station. A solicitor attended each visit to the police station:

1) An eyewitness description of a red car, giving our reg number (our car is red) but a description of a lady that doesn't match her. The solicitor advised that a police identity line up cannot take place and he recorded this in the post interview letter to us.
2) Evidence of my car being driven in the same town where we live at this time. It's a lagre industrial town in the East Midlands with a population of over 200,000 people so not quite sure what this proves!
3) A photo of the same make and model of our car being driven into the car park where this occured. No numberplate nor driver was visible in the photo.

Our insurer came and inspected our car after it was reported and deemed that there was no sign of a collision nor damage to our car. The last interview with the police took place 5 months and 1day after the supposed collision date. To complicate matters,

How do people suggest we proceed once this case eventually comes before the magistrate court? I'm hoping the poilce have breached the 6month limit to bring a case to court but how can we go about determining this?

Dave
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Logician
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 19:36
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For the case to be out of time, the summons you did not receive would have to have been issued in response to an information laid by the police out of time. Have you or your solicitor seen this? Was it in fact a summons as you say or a requisition, which is now more usual?

Any evidence that your car was elsewhere at the time would be useful. Does the other sighting of your car (#2) correspond with your fiancée's route? What damage is alleged to have been caused in this incident, is it plausible that it could have been caused without any corresponding damage to your car? How different is the description of the driver to your fiancée? Did the eye witness in #1 sighting claim to have seen the car hitting something?


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Mayhem007
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:55
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I was once witness to a very similar situation. I saw an old man hit the rear of someones vehicle whilst maneuvering into a parking space. The old man even inspected the rear of his car after posting a letter and then drove off. I informed the owner of the damaged vehicle and gave my details.
A couple of months later I gave a statement to the police with drawings of the position of the involved vehicles.
Two or three months later I had to go to court to give evidence. However not being privy to the court proceedings it became obvious that the prosecution were struggling with their case, as a police officer came in and took another statement from me whilst I was in the witness waiting room. I was specifically asked if I would recognize the person, to which I replied yes.
Anyway the case got dismissed. Apparently the defendants solicitor managed to convince the court that I could not possibly identify the person beyond all reasonable doubt due to the amount of time that had elapsed. Also, the defence argued that the police should have conducted a line up and requested that I identify the alleged offender soon after they were aware of the alleged offence.



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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:39
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:55) *
Also, the defence argued that the police should have conducted a line up and requested that I identify the alleged offender soon after they were aware of the alleged offence.

And they’d be right. How could any dock identification be relied upon?


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thisisntme
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 18:36
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 18:39) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:55) *
Also, the defence argued that the police should have conducted a line up and requested that I identify the alleged offender soon after they were aware of the alleged offence.

And they’d be right. How could any dock identification be relied upon?


You mean it's not like in the Perry Mason films where the Prosecutor asks:

"is the assailant in this courtroom?"

"Yes." says the witness, pointing at the defendant, "He's over there!!"

Surely not wink.gif


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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 19:06
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QUOTE (thisisntme @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 19:36) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 18:39) *
QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:55) *
Also, the defence argued that the police should have conducted a line up and requested that I identify the alleged offender soon after they were aware of the alleged offence.

And they’d be right. How could any dock identification be relied upon?


You mean it's not like in the Perry Mason films where the Prosecutor asks:

"is the assailant in this courtroom?"

"Yes." says the witness, pointing at the defendant, "He's over there!!"

Surely not wink.gif

I know, right?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 20:15
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Surely could have cobbled together a line up with a few of the ushers and magistrates. People need to use their initiative more.
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NewJudge
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:00
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:15) *
Surely could have cobbled together a line up with a few of the ushers and magistrates. People need to use their initiative more.

I think there may be a few practical difficulties with that seeing as an ID parade should consist of (I think) eight other people who resemble the suspect in terms of gender, age, height, ethnicity, etc. A bit more importantly, I doubt that such a procedure with comply with PACE! Or are we back to Perry Mason!?

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:03
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 21:59
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 22:00) *
I think there may be a few practical difficulties with that seeing as an ID parade should consist of (I think) eight other people who resemble the suspect in terms of gender, age, height, ethnicity, etc. A bit more importantly, I doubt that such a procedure with comply with PACE! Or are we back to Perry Mason!?

Entirely serious. Obviously the magistrates will need to come down into the courtroom and muck in, it would be obvious if they remained on the bench and everyone had to stand whilst they take their places in the parade.

They could keep a fancy dress box out back so they could be prepared for any unidentified defendant.

It's called streamlining the criminal justice system. Let me know how you're going to pay my consultancy fees.
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StuartBu
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 02:07
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Do they still conduct ID Parades in that way...I remember years ago being being stopped in Glasgow near a Cop Shop and asked if I'd be available to take part in a parade but I couldnt do it as I was working. Dont they use images of the suspect and other similar looking persons now instead of dragging folk in off the street.... I'm sure I saw that on telly.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 06:01
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They so still do it like that, yes.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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southpaw82
post Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 11:30
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 03:07) *
Do they still conduct ID Parades in that way...I remember years ago being being stopped in Glasgow near a Cop Shop and asked if I'd be available to take part in a parade but I couldnt do it as I was working. Dont they use images of the suspect and other similar looking persons now instead of dragging folk in off the street.... I'm sure I saw that on telly.



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 13 Jul 2018 - 07:01) *
They so still do it like that, yes.

I believe video ID procedures are becoming more commonplace.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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