NCP London Underground PCN - what to do? |
NCP London Underground PCN - what to do? |
Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:25
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 5 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,348 |
I am the registered keeper and received the attached Notice to Keeper in the post.
It says the car was parked outside of the marked bays in an NCP operated car park attached to a London tube station. I have looked at the photographic evidence and it looks like there is an extra car on each row - so my car is not the only one. A number of people have access to my keys and nobody has admitted to driving it. As far as I knew, it was parked at a friend's house while I was at work and when i came home, it was where I had left it. i can only assume, someone has helped themselves and gone out to run an errand during the day. I did also find the pay and display parking ticket for the day in question on my windscreen, so whoever it was did pay to park there. However I never got the original PCN left on the windscreen. The Notice to Keeper is telling me to do one of three things. I understand that usually NCP offer a reduced rate of £60 for paying within 14 days - this is not mentioned anywhere on the Notice to Keeper. I read something somewhere about some required information to be included in a Notice to Keeper for it to be enforceable? Does anyone have any advice on what to do about this please? Many thanks in advance. This post has been edited by pepperonimilkshake: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:33
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:25
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:32
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Check if the car park is a TfL car park operated by NCP. If it is then byelaws apply and the keeper cannot be held liable using POFA
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:37
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#3
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 5 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,348 |
It is an LUL station with NCP as the official parking provider for London Underground.
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:39
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
That's not what I asked. Is the car park owned by LU and NCP tun it for them.
Does it mention byelaws on the site anywhere? This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:40 |
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:43
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 5 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,348 |
Sorry that's what I meant to say - it is an LU owned car park.
Should I reply to them? If so, what should I say? This post has been edited by pepperonimilkshake: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:47 |
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Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 22:56
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Dear Sir
Ref **** I was not the driver of the vehicle The location is not relevant land in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act and your company has no right to recover payment from me as the registered keeper The Parking Notice must therefore be cancelled Yours Faithfully |
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Tue, 6 Feb 2018 - 19:09
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 277 Joined: 29 Aug 2017 Member No.: 93,755 |
IIRC there is a site that gives all the TfL owned car parks..due to old age! iu have forgotten where, but it did crop up on another TfL park i
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 10:57
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#8
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 5 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,348 |
Bobthesod the end of your message has cut off....
What does IIRC stand for? |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 11:07
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,587 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
If I Recall Correctly
-------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:06
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#10
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 5 Feb 2018 Member No.: 96,348 |
Thanks.
I saw another recent thread about byelaws and whether the ppc chooses criminal or civil route etc. But I don't fully understand. I have never had a ticket before. Is anyone able to spell this out for me very simply please? Also if I respond with above suggestion, is this the only option? Is there anything else I should include? Thanks Also can I ask what happens if I write to them after the 28 days? Is this an issue? The date on the notice is about a week before I received it so want to check. |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:33
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
The Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA) allows parking companies to recover payments from the registered keeper if they don't know who was driving
As it's uncommon to make one person responsible for contracts or trespass by another, there are conditions to be met The first condition is that the location is covered by the Act In general it's not covered if the driver's actions are already regulated by other legislation such as byelaws or council traffic orders Railway property is covered by the Railway Byelaws and offences can be prosecuted by the magistrates Some parking companies issue Penalty Notices as an offer not to let the railway company prosecute the vehicle's owner in the Magistrates Court for a criminal offence They pretend that it's an offence not to pay the Penalty Notice and omit to mention that only the driver can be prosecuted It's a frightening threat but, with very few exceptions, an empty one They don't receive the payment if there's a prosecution and, after six months, it is impossible to prosecute NCP prefer to issue Parking Notices under contract law This allows them to pursue the matter for six years but they never have any right under POFA to recover the payment from the registered keeper if he wasn't driving The short letter I suggested can be sent at any time, not just within 28 days It's not an appeal; it's telling them a fact of life |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:39
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
So here we are 11 days later asking if you should respond with the response in post #6 Sheeesh...
After the 28 days they may just refuse to respond. This is byelaws land, there is no keeper liability only the magistrates court and that option expires after 6 months. The intention is to keep them busy for 6 months then there is no longer an option for magistrates. If it goes to magistrates then they don't get paid. Get out of this thread and look at other railway/byelaw threads. Come back whn you get a response. |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 12:44
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
This is an NCP Parking Notice with the six years limit
It says that if unpaid they will refer it to a debt collector to chase the driver Very naughty phrase "We understand you to be the driver" I would therefore rephrase a sentence in that letter Contrary to your unfounded and incorrect assertion, I was not the driver of the vehicle This post has been edited by Redivi: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 17:06 |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 14:08
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41,587 Joined: 25 Aug 2011 From: Planet Earth Member No.: 49,223 |
Very naughty phrase "We understand you to be the driver" Not that NCP go to court (currently) but they could argue that the keeper didn't deny this and/or provide the details. Balance of probabilities and all that... -------------------- RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it. |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 14:38
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
That was my theory
"Contrary to your ..." makes the point doubly clear |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 16:06
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
QUOTE This is an NCP Parking Notice with the six months limit No six month limit to a contractual charge though. This is only a parking charge.6 months sure only really applies to Indigo and CP Plus at stations (and UKPPO at Newcastle Airport?) who call their PCNs penalties. |
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Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 17:07
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,126 Joined: 31 Jan 2018 Member No.: 96,238 |
Thanks SRM
It was a typo that I was about to correct and got distracted |
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