Parking Charge Notice |
Parking Charge Notice |
Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 12:52
Post
#1
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
A car for which I am the registered keeper was driven up to Manchester in October. It was parked in Pollard Street Metrolink Car Park (New Islington station) on in what I understand is a very poorly marked bay, but nevertheless in the bay. The driver paid for 4 days.
When they returned, they found that someone (a third party) had slightly moved the car and it was just over the bay markings and a ticket had been issued. I understand that as registered keeper I am not under any legal requirement to name the driver, (assuming I knew) and cannot be held responsible for this PCN No pictures of the vehicle were taken as there should be no need to do so but there were several people in the car who could be witness's. Furthermore on the original PAYMENT OVERDUE notice, it states that if payment is not received within 14 days, there may be additional charges, but it doesn't state how much, surely that is illegal. The car was parked in the morning of day 1, but no ticket was issued until day 2, this seems to back up what has been said about the car being moved. Here are scans of the documents: I have removed all information including the bar code, that could be used to identify the notice I was considering writing the following: Dear I as registered keeper have received your Parking Charge Notice --------- The driver of the vehicle and only the driver is liable for this parking charge notice. The registered keeper has no liability whatsoever. I have been informed by the driver that the vehicle was parked correctly within a marked bay, but when they returned to the car a couple of days later, they saw that it had been moved and a ticket issued. Neither myself as registered keeper nor the driver can be held responsible for the actions of a 3rd party. I suggest you therefore cancel this charge. What do others think. This post has been edited by Korting: Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 12:53 |
|
|
Advertisement |
Tue, 2 Jan 2018 - 12:52
Post
#
|
Advertise here! |
|
|
|
Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 21:58
Post
#21
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
So what you are saying is write this, but nothing more:
QUOTE I as the registered keeper of the vehicle xx xx xxx am in receipt of you Parking Charge Notice Payment overdue and subsequent Final reminder. I am the keeper of vehicle xxxx which is the subject of your PCN xxxxx. The keeper cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver as the Notice to Keeper does not attempt to hold the keeper liable with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period contrary to paragraph 8 (4). The only liability is with the driver, whom I have no legal requirement to name, and will not be doing so. I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that no further action is being taken on this matter. The conditions state that a vehicle must be parked in a bay, but does not say wholly in a bay. I have spoken to the driver, who tells me that the car was parked within the very poorly marked bay. Bearing in mind the foregoing, I expect you to cancel this PCN and write to me informing me of the fact. Is this correct? This post has been edited by Korting: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 21:58 |
|
|
Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 23:07
Post
#22
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Don't even include the last 3 sentences, you're giving them something to argue about. The last sentence has already been said at the end of the 3rd paragraph.
|
|
|
Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 09:52
Post
#23
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Letter will be sent this afternoon
|
|
|
Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 19:15
Post
#24
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
The letter was sent after the 56 day period,
Date of original notice 02/10/17, Date of Payment overdue notice 08/12/17. Which I make is 67 days, Do I need to add this to my letter. |
|
|
Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 21:20
Post
#25
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 18,751 Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Member No.: 32,130 |
Yes as long as nothing identifies the driver. And get a free certificate of posting from the PO Counter, don't just pop it in a postbox.
|
|
|
Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 12:44
Post
#26
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Sent letter off on Monday recorded delivery, should have been received Tuesday/Wednesday.
On Thursday without replying or acknowledging my letter I received the following NOTICE OF IMPENDING LEGAL ACTION So what now? I could write to them again, enclosing a copy of my original letter, They still do not know who the keeper is, they haven't acknowledged my letter, I feel this should be done sooner rather than later. Michael |
|
|
Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 13:07
Post
#27
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
Could have just crossed in the post but tobe on the safe side remind them that you did send a letter but have had no response.
|
|
|
Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 23:45
Post
#28
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Anything else?
If they issue proceedings do I as registered keeper have to go to Manchester or can it be heard in London? This post has been edited by Korting: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 12:49 |
|
|
Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 08:38
Post
#29
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
You are the KEEPER. They don't know the driver do they? edit.
No you select a court that is convenient for you. They may ask that it is a paper only hearing but you object to that. |
|
|
Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 07:54
Post
#30
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Please, spend a few minutes resear ching how small claims works. It saves you posting questions asked, and answered, 100 times before.
|
|
|
Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 08:38
Post
#31
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 17,088 Joined: 8 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,457 |
|
|
|
Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 10:25
Post
#32
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
The answer is I dont know because my daughter, didn't keep the post office receipt!
I've sent it again by email and I will be sending it again by recorded delivery. But I got an automated response from SIP QUOTE Thank you for your email, we have received your email and will be back in touch with you as soon as possible. PLEASE NOTE: any email related to Parking Charge Notices (PCN's) will not be responded too. Any correspondence related to a PCN can be served via http://www.sipcarparks.co.uk/Appeals or by writing to SIP Parking Limited, PO BOX 5450, Manchester, M61 0JX. It may take up to 10 working days to reply, should we expect it to take longer we will let you know. |
|
|
Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 11:26
Post
#33
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 4,167 Joined: 6 Oct 2012 Member No.: 57,558 |
QUOTE I've sent it again by email and I will be sending it again by recorded delivery. NOT recorded, they can refuse to sign and then there is no record of delivery, post it first class at a post office counter and keep the receipt. This post has been edited by kommando: Mon, 15 Jan 2018 - 11:26 |
|
|
Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 22:42
Post
#34
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Ok so after nearly a year and a half, I've received a County Court Summons as below:
I have removed my personal details but if you feel that i should remove more please let me know. I would like some guidance as to how to respond. My defence might be something like this: QUOTE On Sunday 1st October, The car xx yy xxx was driven and parked at Pollard Street car park in a marked bay. On Wednesday 4th October the driver returned to the car and found that it had been moved by a third party and that a ticket had been affixed to the windscreen. A letter disputing the ticket was sent to SIP which was not replied to. I consider that SIP have not acted within the rules of POFA I as registered keeper cannot and will not be held liable for this ticket. SIP do not know the identity of the driver. SIP cannot prove that the car was parked incorrectly at the time of Parking, The most likely explanation is that the car was moved by a third party for which neither the driver nor the registered keeper can be held responsible for. The original charge for parking was paid at the machine in cash. There has been no losses incurred by SIP as a result of parking in this car park. Furthermore, the claimant should not entitled to any damages. It is considered that neither myself as registered keeper nor the driver are liable for any amount. Should the matter proceed to a court hearing then I as the defendant of the claim will make an application for damages of £60 per hour including waiting time as that is my hourly rate that I charge my customers for work done which I cannot do as a result of attending court. Any advice will be very welcome. This post has been edited by Korting: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 22:44 |
|
|
Wed, 19 Jun 2019 - 23:16
Post
#35
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 10,695 Joined: 23 Apr 2004 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 1,131 |
You need to go online and acknowledge the claim first.
Tick intend to defend in full, do not contest jurisdiction and type nothing in the defence. |
|
|
Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 09:15
Post
#36
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Thanks Glazier, the claim has been acknowledged online and I have a PDF of the form that I've kept.
What's next |
|
|
Thu, 20 Jun 2019 - 13:40
Post
#37
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Writing a defence
A defence is written in the third person, ie "the defendant denies that...." and not first person. It si a set of ARGUMENTS why you are not liable, and a series of statements accepting or denying every claim they make in their Particulars of Claim MSE Forum -> NEwbies thread -> Post 2. Read. Read. Read. Bookmark and, if you have a question, read it again. What you wrote above is not a defence, but more like a witness statement - which is the "story" of what happened. Keep your defence concise. |
|
|
Tue, 25 Jun 2019 - 22:24
Post
#38
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
Any better:
QUOTE The defendant fully denies the claim and any liability set out in the claim.
The defendant wrote to the claimant on .... but received no reply. The defendant considers that the claimant did not act within the rules of PoFA. The claimant has not established who the driver was. The claimant cannot prove that the vehicle was incorrectly parked at the time of parking. The defendant considers that the most likely explanation is that the car was moved by a third party for which neither the driver nor the defendant can be held responsible for. The defendant has been forced to spend a considerable amount of time and effort defending this baseless claim, including incurring direct expenses, postage, stationery and so on. The defendant has had to spend hours researching the law and drafting a full defence and witness statement, and gathering documentary evidence. As a litigant in person, this has caused the defendant significant distress and inconvenience. In contrast, all the claimant has done is to draft and serve a robo-type claim so brief as to be almost incoherent. Should the matter proceed to a court hearing then the defendant will make an application for damages of £300 for time spent dealing with this matter and £60 per hour including waiting time attending the hearing as that is the defendants hourly rate that is charged to customers for work done which cannot do as a result of attending court |
|
|
Wed, 26 Jun 2019 - 08:58
Post
#39
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Not really, no
Did you read teh suggested thread? Did you note how the defence is structured? Where in the CPRs, specifically CPR27.14, do you think you can claim a) for damages when actually what you mean is COSTS and b) that these can be £60 per hour? The LIP rate, max, is £19 per hour, and you have to show they have behaved unreasonably. |
|
|
Sat, 3 Aug 2019 - 12:53
Post
#40
|
|
Member Group: Members Posts: 1,570 Joined: 13 May 2010 Member No.: 37,524 |
I didnt know there was a time limit to put in a defence,
I've now got a judgement in default. How do I go about getting this set aside and putting in a defence? |
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 17:54 |