Rape trial collapses, Huge failings in police disclosure |
Rape trial collapses, Huge failings in police disclosure |
Fri, 15 Dec 2017 - 22:25
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
BBC Link
Absolutely shocking incompetence on the part of the police. You know you’ve gone badly wrong if even the prosecution barrister is criticising you. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 15 Dec 2017 - 22:25
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Sun, 17 Dec 2017 - 21:55
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Nothing new, Stefan Kisko was prosecuted and convicted and jailed for a long time, yet the Police had evidence of his complete innocence the whole time.
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 00:53
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 701 Joined: 11 Oct 2006 From: stapleford,nottingham Member No.: 8,176 |
One of my brothers was charged with several rapes of his 15 year old daughter,who made the allegations ,after being co-erced by an aunt, because my brother refused to let his daughters 22 year old drug addict boyfriend sleep over at the weekend.
The jury failed to reach a verdict, and the cops pressurised my brothers daughter to go for a re-trial swearing that "We will definitely get a conviction this time"(And yes,these are the exact words of the cop who handled the case). A re-trial went ahead, and on the second day,my brothers barrister produced a document from the local hospital showing that my brothers daughter had had an examination to prove that she had been raped......However,the result from the medical was that her hymen was still intact, and she was still a virgin. The judge ordered the jury to return a not guilty verdict, and ordered the defective detective into his chambers after the case.He also told my brother that "You are well within your rights to sue the police and good luck in doing so". Unfortunately,the solicitor my brother got to help him sue the police farce was as corrupt as the cop, and it all fell apart.However,my brother did succeed in getting compensation from the solicitors practice after filing a complaint against their handling of the case. There has always been mis carriages of justice, and there always will be. No wonder some people don't like the cops. I hope the guy in the newspaper story sues the cops big time. |
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Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 16:48
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: 1 Nov 2013 From: NG1 Member No.: 66,409 |
There has always been mis carriages of justice, and there always will be. No wonder some people don't like the cops. I hope the guy in the newspaper story sues the cops big time. Your wish may well be granted He will sue police and CPS and said: 'There's been no contact. It's disappointing' |
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Mon, 18 Dec 2017 - 21:35
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,931 Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Member No.: 4,323 |
This pancake has two sides, both equally distasteful.
Would the guy have had the same problem if his name was Smith or Saville ? -------------------- Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.
Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader. |
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Tue, 19 Dec 2017 - 10:45
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
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Tue, 19 Dec 2017 - 19:56
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,140 Joined: 19 Jun 2004 From: Surrey Member No.: 1,326 |
IMHO Alison Saunders is part of the issue.
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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 10:51
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,091 Joined: 9 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,066 |
So they are going to check all current cases to ensure the defence has the full info (as I read it). I wonder if there are many cases where the guy has pleaded innocent, but has been convicted anyway, in similar circumstances.
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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:06
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
So they are going to check all current cases to ensure the defence has the full info (as I read it). I wonder if there are many cases where the guy has pleaded innocent, but has been convicted anyway, in similar circumstances. Stefan Kisko, jailed for 16 years for the murder of Leslie Molseed, the 3 main prosecution witnesses were three little bitches who did it 'for a laugh' and got so dragged in they felt they couldn't then tell the truth, the Police withheld evidence that Kisko couldn't produce any semen, despite matching the blood type of semen found on Molseed's body. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:21
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#29
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
The entire notion that the police can be relied upon to decide impartially what material should be disclosed to the defence is deeply flawed, IMO - regardless of the charge.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 14:59
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
I saw on the news a second case has been withdrawn on same, similar lack of disclosure.
Same cop involved . And Met has started a review of all outstanding cases. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/20...aunches-review/ |
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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 16:39
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
I saw on the news a second case has been withdrawn on same, similar lack of disclosure. Same cop involved . And Met has started a review of all outstanding cases. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/20...aunches-review/ I am surprised anyone thinks it strange or uncommon for the police to withhold evidence My view is if the do they should go to prison. Back in the 90's i was charged with a farcical assault. I'm 6 foot 5 20 stone and at the time not much fat. The bod was bigger than me. He was a drunken trouble maker, caused trouble took a swing and i decked him. I was in my forties him his twenties I was identified invited to come to the station for interview the next day, when i arrived i was arrested. had a duty solicitor appointed as i was told in no uncertain terms when my interview was over i would be charged. Told the story got charged and elected a trial First hearing no one from the duty solicitors turns up. so was adjourned. I then got my own solicitor. Who did the job right. Applied for evidence and was supplied with the transcripts of two interviews mine and his. I had 6 witnesses the police said they had not interviewed any of them the transcript of my interview bore little resemblance to what was said. It was only upon an application for the tape to be played in court that the CPS managed to accept that every amendment to the transcript i put forward should be accepted. Long and short of it was when my barrister finished laughing he went into court applied for summery dismissal, i was called in and told no case to answer or words to that effect The police will tell you it is their job to investigate and find out what happened, but all they want is a conviction -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 20 Dec 2017 - 18:31
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
The police will tell you it is their job to investigate and find out what happened, but all they want is a conviction I try not to laugh when a police officer says "we’re here to find the truth". Funny how every question asked is aimed at gathering evidence to prosecute the interviewee or head off a potential defence. Truth seeking my arse. The police think a suspect did it and will try to prove it. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 23 Dec 2017 - 14:24
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 08:13
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Seems like its not an isolated incidence to say the least!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42795058 Is it poor training, lack of resources or just laziness is the question I think. Is the growth in the last two years due to worse disclosure or more being found out........ -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 14:15
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 350 Joined: 18 Mar 2015 Member No.: 76,324 |
Pressure to secure more successful sexual assault/rape convictions, considering how low the chances are currently of someone being banged up for an offence of that nature (roughly 7% for rape last year, and that was an increase over previous years!).
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:29
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,091 Joined: 9 Mar 2007 Member No.: 11,066 |
I wonder how many "guiltys" that got through had evidence withheld and could have been innocent?
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:49
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I wonder how many "guiltys" that got through had evidence withheld and could have been innocent? The received wisdom is that an innocent person will not plead guilty. However, with inadequate disclosure and a lawyer advising that based on the disclosed evidence a conviction is very likely and the dangling carrot of 1/3 off an already lengthy sentence for an early guilty plea, who knows? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 24 Jan 2018 - 17:52
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#38
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
I wonder how many "guiltys" that got through had evidence withheld and could have been innocent? None, nothing to worry about there, no siree - the DPP says so. <cough> Bu****it <cough> Others seem to think similarly. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Thu, 25 Jan 2018 - 10:23
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Stefan Kiszko spent 16 years in jail after the Police failed to disclose evidence of his innocence, the Lesley Molseed case is often referred to as the single murder with two victims, its not new. And it's clear it's sent innocent people to jail, Alison Sanders is a blithering idiot (personal opinion).
At least we now understand why Kiszko's MP wouldn't want to get involved in helping someone convicted of the sexual assault of an 11 year old, that MP was Cyril Smith. A good article here, you have to register (free) to read it but worthwhile in my opinion. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/pro...y-are-l957bw7nv This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 - 06:53 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
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Fri, 26 Jan 2018 - 22:05
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#40
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Hopefully the continuing public stream of disclosure failures will at some point result in a system less ludicrous than relying on the prosecution to play nice with the defence, in an adversarial system. Scant consolation to the people now being wrongly prosecuted, and convicted, though.
-------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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