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vosa, speeding
ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:01
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hi could someone tell me if a vosa agent can legally speed in order to pull you over
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post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:01
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:06
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They can do pretty much what they want.

I guess they dug in your pockets after they got you?
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:11
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yes dug in pretty deep and blown my business out of the water
even though there was very plusable mittigating circumstances they wasnt willing to listen to reason
so im just trying to find out if the have the same powers of the police in regards of speeding in order to pull a vehicle over
if it is what i think it is i could probably get the case overturned
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:14
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If your doing the Speed limit,how do you suppose they make you aware that they want a chat without going faster and going in front with signals?

Your not going to get anywhere down that road.

If you want more help then we need more info.

Additionally who is going to prosecute them,and with what proof?

This post has been edited by fedup2: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:15
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:25
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well 1 if they was speeding in order to pull me over and they dont have such powers to do so would make their stop illegal plus we had already passed the vosa station by around 7 miles before he pulled me over
the place he pulled me over was on a very small laybye used by the police in order to cross the motorway with out going to the next junction which was a very dangerous procedure if i was in a small car
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:38
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sorry more info
i bought a vehicle 2 years ago to start my business the vehicle was a 5 tonne vehicle downrated to a 3.5 tonne which was perfect for me to drive on my licence
when i purchase said vehicle the down rated carrying capacity was stamp on by the vehicle inspectorate 1640 kg which was brillant for me it meant i could carry most medium sized cars
they told me i was over weight by 1.6 tonnes which i was bewildered to say the least i asked how do you work that out when it says said the cc was 1640 kg the vehicle on the back kerb weight is 1550kg which as far as i was concerned was under buy a good margin they said not bother what it says on you log book its registered a 3.5 t turck and its registering 4.6 as it stands now
after a lot of deliberation i asked them to weight the truck without the car on it weighed 3.1 tonnes on its own so i asked the question if thats the case when it was downrated why would the give it a 1640 kg cc
or y had it not been refused the downrating if at what say the vehicle can only carry 400kg it wouldnt of been woth the downrating
so now i have to go to court and fight a 32% overweight case
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:03
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in addition no one is going to prostcute them but if i can prove they didnt follow protocall i may have chance at fighting the overweight court case and save my business
in a way im glad i have been made aware that most of the till it would be illegal using it but the fact that this could ruin my business i need to fight every way possible which ive already started in the way of reinstating the original vehicle in order to dell on and purchase a vehicle fit for purpose
we all make a gunuine mistake but these fool have no sense of reason and are only there in my opinion to collect revenu in the way of fines
i have always prided myself on my safe working practice and never been introuble by them before and to be treated the way they treated me that day is totally unacceptable so if i can find a way to get the case thrown out i will
and maybe i can carry on with a little more knowledge in respect of my weights
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:03
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Im out of my depth with the case youve got but hopefully someone here can point you in the right direction.

i would forget about Vosa and their actions on the road,its going nowhere.Concentrate on proving your case.

And yes now Vosa keep the proceeds although im not sure about court cases.

This post has been edited by fedup2: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:05
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peterguk
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:17
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So i guess the simple questions are:

1) are/were you guilty of the offence?

2) if yes, does the alleged speeding of the vosa empoyee negate your guilt?


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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 18:59
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yes and no to that question yes the vehicle was overweight and no as per the weight shown on my log book when first bought the truck no im not guilty as i was to my knowledge the vehicle that was on was 1550 kg and according to my logbook the carrying capacity was 1640 kg
ive have now looked at my log book and which i had not noticed when i came back the log book had been rectified at dvla as a revenue weight of 3.5 tonnes which i carnt understand myself
if i had known this when buying the vehicle i would never of bought it as 400kg carrying weight well it just doesnt make sense in buying it does it so some where along the line something has gone wrong
but now there will be a court case as the vehicle was 32 % over weight which i am mortified about if can find a way of getting the case dismissed then i will then i can move forward with my business without having to close it down
the 1 thing i have gained out of this is even though paper work shows 1 thing other agencies ie vosa have diffrent rules and dont care of any mitigating circumstances at all after all as a first offence with circumstances which ive discribed they could of at least make me take the car off and have it picked up by another company and given me a formal warning
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southpaw82
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 19:49
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QUOTE (ldr @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:25) *
well 1 if they was speeding in order to pull me over and they dont have such powers to do so would make their stop illegal


No it wouldn't.

What offence is detailed on the paperwork you have?


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 20:14
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One presumes s.41B Road Traffic Act - the statutory defences do not apply.

You have to deal with the facts and being unaware isn't a defence but may mitigate. It seems the cc was for the original 5t vehicle and was not updated when downrating to 3.5t. (I suspect the vehicle was not inspected during the downrate - see here)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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StuartBu
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:03
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QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:06) *
They can do pretty much what they want.

I guess they dug in your pockets after they got you?


Who are VOSA agents and what do they drive and is there any obligation on motorists to stop for them ( assuming the motorist recognises who they are )?
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fedup2
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:26
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QUOTE (StuartBu @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:03) *
QUOTE (fedup2 @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 17:06) *
They can do pretty much what they want.

I guess they dug in your pockets after they got you?


Who are VOSA agents and what do they drive and is there any obligation on motorists to stop for them ( assuming the motorist recognises who they are )?


Vosa are to be taken very very seriously and have the same powers as the police as far as stopping goes as im aware.They drive all sorts of vehicles,sometimes little people carriers with a sign on to display multiple messages such as pointing left,or follow me.
I cant remember ever seeing a case where they have been ignored,but im guessing if you did you wouldnt be working in the near future and they would be like ants all over any operator licence holders company.

Im not sure they are called Vosa any more,from when they went 'Private'.

I could be wrong but i dont think they get involved in ordinary motorists,i think on the most part its goods vehicles from vans up.

This post has been edited by fedup2: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:30
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:28
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no suspect the paperwork was an error at the inspection at the point of the down rating process as the cc was type with a dvla /vosa stamp through it when the log book was sent off to be changed into my name the details was updated would appear on the logbook i havent looked at the new log book umtill today (2 years later ) and noticed that the cc weight has been left off and a gross weight of 3500kg has been amended on the book which the old log book didnt have filled in the only weight shown was the cc weight
which is making me think the original documentation there was an error on

like i said before no 1 in their right mind would buy a truck with only a 400kg cc it would be just madness the only reason for me buying it is because it was all stamped dvla and vosa it all looked legit

the only reason im am trying to find out about the protocalls is in the manner the vosa agent stopped me

1 he would have had to be speeding in order to catch me up as i was in the middle lane overtaking when he was stationary on a slip road

2 at 70 mph pulled in front of me and reduced speed rather quickly to 60 mph
by the time he actually got infront we had gone past the vosa station by some miles

3 whilst 60 mph turn his light on telling me to follow him which i did only to slow down rather quickly in front of me to 30 mph in a live lane of the motorway to pull me off the motorway on to a little layby the police use to cross the motorway

so was it a legal for him to take me off route back several miles to the testing station
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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:38
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How many times do we need to tell you? There's no defence there.

Whether the relevant legislation was breached or not only matters.

QUOTE (ldr @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:28) *
like i said before no 1 in their right mind would buy a truck with only a 400kg cc it would be just madness the only reason for me buying it is because it was all stamped dvla and vosa it all looked legit

That is not a defence either. And if I play Devil's Advocate for a moment - who in their right mind would think such a truck only weighed around 1850kg? (To carry 1640kg)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:39


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:42
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QUOTE (ldr @ Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:28) *
so was it a legal for him to take me off route back several miles to the testing station

Yes. The answer will remain the same no matter how many times you ask it.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:46
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well not knowing how the down rating process work
any person that seen a carrying capacity could make that mistake the sam as i did thanks very much hence i knew the truck would be heavier than 1850 but thought that as it said cc 1640 would be in its own catagory sorry if u think im thick but most people would think the same as i did sory for asking a genuine question in order to try and help myself which i thought this website did not to be ridiculed by somebody


thank for you time

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Jlc
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 21:57
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I did not construe that to ridicule you - but the point remains that ignorance of the law will not provide a defence. There may be some mitigating factors that the court could consider.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ldr
post Thu, 7 Dec 2017 - 22:03
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there was no ignorance of the law because its an act of law
but a miss judgment in legislation no law was broken in any way in my eyes i followed the cc capacity guidline and never put anything on it over that weight
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