"wanton or furious driving", |
"wanton or furious driving", |
Thu, 17 Aug 2017 - 18:06
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,337 Joined: 4 Jan 2007 Member No.: 9,897 |
nice to see laws dating back to 1861 being used
guy on a "racing" push bike mows a woman down , bike has not or never was fitted with a front brake , , in court "He told the court he had had no idea there was a legal requirement for his bike to have a front brake." sigh , The court heard that Brunelle is a stunt cyclist who makes videos in which he rides around cities including London "doing dangerous stuff" such as weaving in and out of traffic. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40960346 |
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Thu, 17 Aug 2017 - 18:06
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Advertise here! |
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Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 07:48
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#21
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Member Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: 4 Aug 2014 From: In the beautiful Chilterns Member No.: 72,309 |
I hope he gets a fine for riding an unroadworthy bicycle.
The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly. -------------------- Speed does not kill. It's more to do with how you stop.
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Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 09:13
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#22
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
......The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly. While we see adults (and kids) so engrossed in their phones that they do not observe proper crossing techniques and simply step out, the consequences are dependent on other factors. Such as the driver or rider in this case, being aware, driving within safe limits and the vehicle being roadworthy. I'll give that the rider was aware as he seems to have shouted. Questionable about whether riding within safe limits Bike wasn't roadworthy. Had this been a car with defective brakes, there would be little sympathy for the driver. |
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Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 10:12
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#23
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
The bike shown did not have nec roadworthy requirements eg lights. mudguards. No speedo (not req'd). Neither lights (when its light) or mudguards are required to be roadworthy.....why on earth do you think either are required? Speed was calculated from the CCTV of the incident. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 28 Aug 2017 - 20:05
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#24
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly. ... and by a #### (insert appropriate adjective) on an illegal moving vehicle, a bike, with one type of brake and a verbal warning of approach ie "get the f#ck outta my way" There..fixed that for ya. Let's hope the poor woman's husbands campaign to toughen up on the irresponsible riders has positive effect. Btw your signature is eerily appropriate This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 28 Aug 2017 - 20:07 |
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Mon, 28 Aug 2017 - 21:03
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#25
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
I hope he gets a fine for riding an unroadworthy bicycle. Unlikely, since he's not charged with such an offence. QUOTE The death of a pedestrian was caused by a grown adult stepping out into a road in front of a moving vehicle without looking properly. The jury apparently disagreed. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 06:31
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#26
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Did they disagree, or decide that both were culpable?
Both were at fault it seems to me, although as always we are unlikely to have access to the same level of information that the Jury did, in fact I've yet to even be sure exactly where the collision occurred. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 10:57
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#27
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Did they disagree, or decide that both were culpable? They found that the pedestrian was not the sole cause of the accident, otherwise they could not have convicted of the offence. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 14:57
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#28
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Which was my point!
-------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 29 Aug 2017 - 16:32
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#29
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Which was my point! Yes, you may have 10 shiny pedant points, redeemable nowhere. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 19:40
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#30
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Member Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10 Dec 2016 Member No.: 89,005 |
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Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 20:14
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#31
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Member Group: Members Posts: 2,356 Joined: 30 Jun 2008 From: Landan Member No.: 20,731 |
Which was my point! Well, no, they didn't necessarily have to find her at fault at all in order to convict him. (I'll have those 10 pedant points, thank you...) It seems fairly clear to me that Mr. Alliston was primarily convicted for being an a-hole. Based on public information, I can't say I really disagree that much. --Churchmouse |
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Fri, 1 Sep 2017 - 21:26
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#32
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Member Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 29 Nov 2008 Member No.: 24,463 |
I don't find that article very convincing, unfortunately the CCTV hasn't been released publicly but a front brake would have substantially reduced the braking distance and what that article seems to forget is that even if he'd still hit the pedestrian after using a front brake, the speed would have been hugely reduced and likely not ended in a fatality. At a lower speed (the claims are the cyclist only slowed to around 11mph) he'd also have been able to take a more evasive swerve. I don't agree about quick steering being preferable to braking either, I found very quickly when cycling in town that people don't look round and will step right in front of the bike as they don't hear it so it's important to be riding in a way that expects any pedestrian to suddenly step out so they have room or you can quickly slow down. 18mph on a bike with no proper braking system (I know the fixed wheel counts as a braking system but it's not much compared to a proper one) doesn't seem at all cautious to me, I do a lot of riding through town on a quick road bike and that's a decent speed on a bike and I very much like my hydraulic discs. I don't agree about a driver would get away with it either, looking at the case legally rather than literally if the pedestrian stepped out in front of a driver and the driver killed the pedestrian even though they had sufficient space to slow down I'd have thought there would be a good chance of a death by careless driving or similar. I do think in general it's been blown out of proportion bearing in mind the much larger numbers of fatalities involving motor vehicles. |
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Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 06:17
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#33
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Which was my point! Well, no, they didn't necessarily have to find her at fault at all in order to convict him. (I'll have those 10 pedant points, thank you...) It seems fairly clear to me that Mr. Alliston was primarily convicted for being an a-hole. Based on public information, I can't say I really disagree that much. --Churchmouse Erm, of course they didn't have to find her at fault at all to convict him, I don't think that warrants pedant points, she could have been 75% to blame and him still have commited the offence which he commited. This stemmed from the comment that the death was caused by the pedestrian stepping out in front of the bike if you recall. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 06:29 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 09:32
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#34
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Member Group: Members Posts: 7,235 Joined: 5 Jan 2007 From: England Member No.: 9,919 |
I took the finding to suggest that even if she did step Into the road, a cyclist riding sensibly on a bike with brakes would in all probability not have hit her Which to me puts the onus 100% on the rider.
It is stated he had time to shout not once but twice to get out the way so plenty of reaction time to apply his brakes and put it on a stand. His attitude (as reprted) both at the scene and on social media paints a very good pictire of the a hole that he clealy is. Let's hope the system doesn't fail the family and that the sentence also sends a clear warning to the many maniacs that think they are above the law. |
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Sat, 2 Sep 2017 - 15:09
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#35
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
He was said to have shouted twice, but also she stepped off the pavement 6m in front of him doing 18mph (so just less than a second away) which seems contradictory.
The point is of course that he would almost certainly have been guilty (though unlikely to have been charged) of the offence whether he struck her or not, so she could have been deemed wholly responsible for the accident by the Jury and him still be found guilty (does that get me extra pedant points?). This post has been edited by The Rookie: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 - 10:24 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 12:04
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#36
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
18 months jail time
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41306738 Surprised over custodial sentence considering the manslaughter charge didn't stick. |
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Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 15:56
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#37
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Up to two years can be given for the wanton or furious.
Judges comments seem to suggest he wasn't overly enamoured of Alliston's attitude and there was even a suggestion he'd lied under oath. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 16:29
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#38
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,816 Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Member No.: 24,962 |
18 months in a YOI, hardly the 'Big House'.
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Mon, 18 Sep 2017 - 17:58
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#39
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Custodial sentence absolutely called for.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 07:00
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#40
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Member Group: Members Posts: 425 Joined: 4 Aug 2014 From: In the beautiful Chilterns Member No.: 72,309 |
An alternative view from a QC
Alliston prosecution It was a witch hunt against a cyclist for a minor infraction that had had tragic consequences. This post has been edited by Richy320: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 - 07:04 -------------------- Speed does not kill. It's more to do with how you stop.
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