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Claim Form for PCN issued in February 2012 (Excel Parking Services)
bimbista
post Wed, 15 Mar 2017 - 21:56
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Hi, I hope I don't waste anyone's time here, but am having trouble finding reference defences which we might be able to use against a February 2012 PCN from Excel at The Square, in Chorlton, Manchester.

I think we had about 10 letters from the previous solicitor acting for Excel, then after about a year, they stopped. Early last year, in a spring clean I threw all the letters away, which was possibly a mistake. More started arriving, this time from bw legal late last year, and now we have a Claim Form.

None of the correspondence from bw legal has included any evidence to support their claim.

My wife is the registered keeper.

The amount claimed is £190 + £25 Court fee + £50 Legal costs (£265)

I've acknowledged the service of the claim, on Sunday, as per the really useful advice from Bargepole, but am not at all clear about how to frame our defence, any advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by bimbista: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 - 10:25
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post Wed, 15 Mar 2017 - 21:56
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lamilad
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 11:19
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QUOTE
skeleton

If you are doing a skeleton then go over your WS again and transfer any 'arguments' into the SA.

You can submit your SA just before your court date. Dub Cat had a good skelly so I'm sure they can help you
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Dub_cat
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 11:25
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QUOTE (lamilad @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 12:19) *
QUOTE
skeleton

If you are doing a skeleton then go over your WS again and transfer any 'arguments' into the SA.

You can submit your SA just before your court date. Dub Cat had a good skelly so I'm sure they can help you


if the case is being heard on Thursday, is it best that the OP submits both WS and SA together tomorrow?
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lamilad
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 13:54
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QUOTE (Dub_cat @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 12:25) *
if the case is being heard on Thursday, is it best that the OP submits both WS and SA together tomorrow?


Could do but I would submit it Tue just to give myself the extra time. As there is no obligation to submit a SA the court is unlikely to be concerned about strict timelines that would apply on other tracks.

In scc you can just lump all the arguments into the WS like I did with the Mrnick74 case above (due to time constraints). I've never known a judge complain about this.
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BikerPaul
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 20:22
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QUOTE (lamilad @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 14:54) *
QUOTE (Dub_cat @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 12:25) *
if the case is being heard on Thursday, is it best that the OP submits both WS and SA together tomorrow?


Could do but I would submit it Tue just to give myself the extra time. As there is no obligation to submit a SA the court is unlikely to be concerned about strict timelines that would apply on other tracks.

In scc you can just lump all the arguments into the WS like I did with the Mrnick74 case above (due to time constraints). I've never known a judge complain about this.


Also prepare a Preliminary Issues document about right of Audience - BW Legal almost never send someone with RoA to court.


--------------------
Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to burn the gatso's I chop down

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Don't forget that there are a lot of armchair lawyers everywhere on the internet. People who will actually come to court with you are few and far between.

I am one of those people
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henrik777
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 20:31
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QUOTE (Dub_cat @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 12:25) *
QUOTE (lamilad @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 12:19) *
QUOTE
skeleton

If you are doing a skeleton then go over your WS again and transfer any 'arguments' into the SA.

You can submit your SA just before your court date. Dub Cat had a good skelly so I'm sure they can help you


if the case is being heard on Thursday, is it best that the OP submits both WS and SA together tomorrow?



WS 3 days before trial ????????? icon_hang.gif huh.gif
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 20:55
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Henrik, we know...but it is Manchester, who are ''PPC scam aware''. We've shown the OP cases where a late WS has been OK, e.g. Publican Paul filed his WS the day before and then went and won on no RoA, after a last minute bit of instruction (no lay rep needed).

This OP just needs to crack on and can't worry about that now, needs to submit their WS and evidence.

Right of Audience has already been mentioned to the OP as well, so the preliminary matters can be covered too, no worries.
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henrik777
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 21:21
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 21:55) *
Henrik, we know...but it is Manchester, who are ''PPC scam aware''. We've shown the OP cases where a late WS has been OK, e.g. Publican Paul filed his WS the day before and then went and won on no RoA, after a last minute bit of instruction (no lay rep needed).

This OP just needs to crack on and can't worry about that now, needs to submit their WS and evidence.

Right of Audience has already been mentioned to the OP as well, so the preliminary matters can be covered too, no worries.


I know but somebody from another court area may read it and think it's ok. It's not. No point taking silly chances. cool.gif
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 21:37
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Not recommending it, just dealing with it.

A WS will be submitted in the morning and the OP can then be prepped about Rights of Audience preliminary matters.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Sun, 20 Aug 2017 - 21:47
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lamilad
post Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 01:02
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QUOTE
I know but somebody from another court area may read it and think it's ok. It's not. No point taking silly chances. 

You are, of course, correct, but the 'call to arms' came very late for this case so we have to do the best with what we have.

The OP must make clear to the court that the claimant has not been prejudiced by the late submission.
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bimbista
post Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 07:00
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Just gathering my very late WS and supporting exhibits this morning. Will deliver by hand to the court and email.
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Dub_cat
post Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 10:27
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QUOTE (bimbista @ Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 08:00) *
Just gathering my very late WS and supporting exhibits this morning. Will deliver by hand to the court and email.


remember you need to send it to BW as well!
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bimbista
post Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 19:45
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QUOTE (Dub_cat @ Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 11:27) *
QUOTE (bimbista @ Mon, 21 Aug 2017 - 08:00) *
Just gathering my very late WS and supporting exhibits this morning. Will deliver by hand to the court and email.


remember you need to send it to BW as well!


I did!
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Dub_cat
post Wed, 23 Aug 2017 - 17:02
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Are you all set and understand everything with rights of audience etc? did you get the skeleton in to the court?
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lamilad
post Wed, 23 Aug 2017 - 21:56
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Good luck for tomorrow. Stay calm and composed. Be confident but not cocky. If don't understand something, say so... Doesn't hurt to show a bit of vulnerability to the judge. He/ she might 'look after' you.

Ask the their rep when bwl sent them the docs (drop in into casual conversation). My guess will be tonight or tomorrow morning. Then if they or the judge draw attention to your late submission you can give your reasons and point out that the claimant has not been prejudiced by it in any way.



This post has been edited by lamilad: Wed, 23 Aug 2017 - 21:57
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 00:43
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The above is perfect advice. It's usual that these dropped in legal get the pack only the night before, meaning your bring late can't prejudice them.
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bimbista
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 17:02
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QUOTE (lamilad @ Wed, 23 Aug 2017 - 22:56) *
Good luck for tomorrow. Stay calm and composed. Be confident but not cocky. If don't understand something, say so... Doesn't hurt to show a bit of vulnerability to the judge. He/ she might 'look after' you.



Thanks for this, it was very good advice. It wasn't me in court today, but my partner - I've just been doing the legwork because she doesn't have the time.

You will, as am I, mighty pleased to know that the case was dismissed! Am waiting for full details from my partner, but I don't think she had to do much, it was all down to the judge. As soon as I have more details, I'll post them here.

We only managed this with the support of the people here, in particular I must thank SchoolRunMum, bargepole, lamilad, nosferatu1001, and dub_cat. You're extraordinary folk, we're humbled by your generosity to strangers.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 17:13
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No problem, and congrats!
A full report with case number, judge name, their sides name etc are all really helpful. Please do the same to the prankster as well 😊
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 17:16
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Fantastic - we knew your partner could do this and hope she was facing DJ Iyers to assist the right outcome!

We understand you might want to celebrate tonight, but a 'court report' of how it went, when you can, is always great for us and for newbies to read, we can hardly wait!

Congrats! And what a life experience to recount to the family.
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bimbista
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 17:30
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 18:16) *
Fantastic - we knew your partner could do this and hope she was facing DJ Iyers to assist the right outcome!

We understand you might want to celebrate tonight, but a 'court report' of how it went, when you can, is always great for us and for newbies to read, we can hardly wait!

Congrats! And what a life experience to recount to the family.


The Proseco is chilling...

Will post reports here as soon as I can.
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lamilad
post Thu, 24 Aug 2017 - 18:15
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Delighted with this news. I had all my fingers crossed. DJ Lyer is becoming known as a bastion of common sense and justice.

Looking forward to that report. Especially discussions with rep/ RoA challenge - and DJ Lyer's judgement.

Well done!.... Especially for not giving up, even when it looked like you'd left it too late.
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