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Secure A Space ticket on Hire Car on private housing estate
Deficit
post Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 20:41
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Hi there, hoping you knowledgeable lot can give me a hand with this one. I live on a private housing estate, parking managed by Secure A Space Ltd, the clutch went on my car (a VW Golf) and I was given an Enterprise hire car (a Ford Focus) as a courtesy car by the AA. The last thing on my mind was parking permits as i contemplated a hefty repair bill, so I parked the Focus on my estate, perfectly legitimately given that I am a permit holder, then when I came out next morning realised that i'd forgotten to transfer my parking permit to the hire car and I had a PCN under my windscreen wiper.

To be fair to the parking attendant, he was just doing his job, he would have had no idea that I’m a resident, he just saw a car that shouldn’t be there.

Given that it was a hire car, I appealed to PPC via email ASAP and told them that I was the driver of the car at the time. The reason for this was that I didn’t want PPC going after the Registered Keeper (Enterprise) because Enterprise would probably have just paid the charge, added an admin fee then I’d have had to fight Enterprise for my money back.

For my appeal to the PPC, I used a template letter from http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk. I didn’t bother telling PPC that I was a resident, I’m sure they wouldn’t have given a toss and I wanted to give them as little information as possible, I just wanted to keep them away from the RK.

Predictably, I lost the appeal to the PPC and now I have my POPLA code. I’ve written an appeal for POPLA and I’m not convinced it’s a very strong appeal but it’s best I can do on my own because this company seem to have been pretty good at playing it by the book in this case and seem to obey the CoP pretty well.

I’ve attached the correspondence between PPC and myself at appeal stage 1 and I’ve also attached my draft appeal for stage 2 (POPLA) - wondered if you guys/girls could run through it for me and let me know what you think?

Thanks a lot in advance!

This post has been edited by Deficit: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 15:45
Attached File(s)
Attached File  appeal_1_reply_text.pdf ( 61.11K ) Number of downloads: 92
Attached File  Appeal_2___POPLA.pdf ( 983.87K ) Number of downloads: 97
Attached File  Appeal_1___PPC.pdf ( 118.26K ) Number of downloads: 90
 
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post Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 20:41
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cabbyman
post Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:11
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EDIT ALL identifying detail and references from ALL of that correspondence NOW!

Interestingly, the POPLA code checker returns this: Issuing operator: Robert Gordon University Appeal deadline 21st March.

What does your lease say about parking? It's provisions should override any signs that SAS think gives them the right to scam you.


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Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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Deficit
post Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:30
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:11) *
EDIT ALL identifying detail and references from ALL of that correspondence NOW!


GOOD POINT! Done. Cheers mate

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:11) *
Interestingly, the POPLA code checker returns this: Issuing operator: Robert Gordon University Appeal deadline 21st March.


I noticed that. Any idea what that might mean? That's not where I live. In fact, that appears to be in Aberdeen! Does that work in my favour, some kind of technicality that can void this PCN?
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Gan
post Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:39
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Remove that POPLA code from your picture
Anyone could use it and lock you out

Shame you identified yourself
Hire car notices are the easiest to win at POPLA because no parking company has ever met the POFA conditions

Enterprise doesn't pay parking notices and will cancel the admin charge if you make a fuss

The appeal needs a lot of beefing up

POPLA isn't interested in mitigation and fairness
Never admit a mistake

Let's see exactly what the signs say
They say "permit holders only" but may not say that they have to be displayed

This post has been edited by Gan: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:40
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freddy1
post Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 22:23
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a search for robert gordon university with POPLa and the BPA threw up blanks , however I came upon this advert for a parking attendant https://www.eurocarparks.com/job-descriptio...rdon-university
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pickless
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 00:57
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https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j...Hdg&cad=rja
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ostell
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 07:49
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So you are a resident. What does your lease say about parking? Does it say that you have to display a permit?
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Deficit
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:06
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QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:39) *
Remove that POPLA code from your picture

Done, thanks mate

QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:39) *
Shame you identified yourself
Hire car notices are the easiest to win at POPLA because no parking company has ever met the POFA conditions
Enterprise doesn't pay parking notices and will cancel the admin charge if you make a fuss

Bugger.

QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:39) *
The appeal needs a lot of beefing up

Yes, I thought it was a bit thin, I went through everything I could find on the Parking Cowboys website and went through the whole BPA CoP but these were the only points I could get them on

QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:39) *
POPLA isn't interested in mitigation and fairness
Never admit a mistake

So shall I delete page 2? Surely i should tell them that i'm a permit holder at least?

QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:39) *
Let's see exactly what the signs say
They say "permit holders only" but may not say that they have to be displayed


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cabbyman
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:26
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What does your residential lease say?

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:27


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Deficit
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:53
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 27 Feb 2017 - 21:11) *
What does your lease say about parking? It's provisions should override any signs that SAS think gives them the right to scam you.

QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 07:49) *
So you are a resident. What does your lease say about parking? Does it say that you have to display a permit?

My tenancy agreement makes no mention of parking at all

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:26) *
What does your residential lease say?


It says nothing about parking. I've attached a copy of the cover letter that came with my permit

This post has been edited by Deficit: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:46
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Chitlord
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:59
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You need to read your lease, or tenancy agreement.

Unless it says you need a permit to park then you can park permit-free.


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Deficit
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 17:38
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QUOTE (Chitlord @ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 16:59) *
You need to read your lease, or tenancy agreement.
Unless it says you need a permit to park then you can park permit-free.


You sure? It's not a driveway or a parking space that is linked to my property or reserved for my use, this is a communal car park for residents and their visitors (visitors are also supposed to display a permit, I was issued with one visitor permit as well as one resident permit)

This post has been edited by Deficit: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 17:48
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Chitlord
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 17:56
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like i say, check your lease, that is what tells you what you can and cant do.
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Deficit
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 18:10
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QUOTE (Chitlord @ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 17:56) *
like i say, check your lease, that is what tells you what you can and cant do.


My tenancy agreement says absolutely nothing about parking at all
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ostell
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 22:56
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So there is no requirement to display a permit for parking and no requirement to pay if you do not. The parking company cannot add on extra conditions to your agreement because someone else has said they can operate there. Is there a clause in the agreement that allows for the conditions to be varied?
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Deficit
post Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:19
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QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 22:56) *
So there is no requirement to display a permit for parking and no requirement to pay if you do not. The parking company cannot add on extra conditions to your agreement because someone else has said they can operate there. Is there a clause in the agreement that allows for the conditions to be varied?


There is also no clause allowing for the conditions to be varied.

Is this point likely to win my POPLA appeal?
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softwaremad
post Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:37
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Interesting this one - i have one question though

Are you the owner of the property or are you renting from an owner? as an assured shorthold tenancy for example would not normally cover the parking situation, however the document that tells all is the lease of the building itself??

Thanks for this though as it all assists in the learn and knowledge can then be passed forward
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Deficit
post Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:39
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QUOTE (softwaremad @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:37) *
Interesting this one - i have one question though

Are you the owner of the property or are you renting from an owner? as an assured shorthold tenancy for example would not normally cover the parking situation, however the document that tells all is the lease of the building itself??

Thanks for this though as it all assists in the learn and knowledge can then be passed forward


I'm renting from an owner and i don't have access to his documentation unfortunately
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softwaremad
post Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 19:44
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ah now that is where the issue lies in my opinion - you could ask for a copy - their lease there is nothing to hide, would the owner assist at all? errors happen all the time and long term tenants are preferable, so if they lose tenants because the parking management is a tad aggressive then they lose out financially too

there was a way someone mentioned the other day to access the documents total cost was £10 £3 for land search then lease document would be mentioned there and accessible from somewhere else for £7

Regarding the actual issue of the notice to driver - was an observation time noted? longer than the grace period?? As time would be required would it not for a visitor to collect the pass and then return to vehicle to display it?
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 2 Mar 2017 - 00:45
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QUOTE (Deficit @ Wed, 1 Mar 2017 - 20:19) *
QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 22:56) *
So there is no requirement to display a permit for parking and no requirement to pay if you do not. The parking company cannot add on extra conditions to your agreement because someone else has said they can operate there. Is there a clause in the agreement that allows for the conditions to be varied?


There is also no clause allowing for the conditions to be varied.

Is this point likely to win my POPLA appeal?


Nope. POPLA are not that sophisticated with their decisions.
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