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Notices of rejection, Validity re offering reduced penalty charge with possibility of appeal
Hippocrates
post Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 19:18
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Good evening. I thought I would post this issue for the experts. I note that one council (deliberately nameless) states that, if the reduced penalty is paid but an appeal is made to the Tribunal, the difference will have to be paid if the appeal is unsuccessful.

Surely , this is wholly wrong? I have consulted the London Tribunals and the LGO websites. The former states in its Enforcement Process link that you either pay or appeal, which is correct. The latter states that you should not pay if you wish to appeal, which is more forthright and clear.

A few years back I represented someone (and contrary to the advice of several experts on this forum, I might add) who had received a Charge Certificate - and paid it - and was successful. And the Council was ordered to reimburse him. But that was an exceptional case.

My question purely relates to the misinformation involved here. If anyone knows of any cases where the London Tribunal even accepts any appeal after the reduced charge has been paid after the NOR stage, I would be most happy to know! I seem to remember that there are such cases, but I do not recall ever reading such a NOR as the ones which are the subject of my topic.

The obvious next question is: does such a statement invalidate the NOR? I will post up the actual wording when I am given the paperwork again.

This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 23:04


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There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

Donald Rumsfeld

There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"
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post Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 19:18
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 19:34
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2150447325

This matter was listed before me today as an appeal it being set down for hearing neither party to the proceedings attending.
I note the council's statement in its undated Request Form received 28 January 2016 that this penalty charge has been paid by the appellant at the charge certificate rate the council stating that 'the case is closed therefore the appeal will not be considered' but payment of a penalty charge does not in my view prevent or preclude an appellant from continuing to pursue his/her appeal to the adjudicator. The council should have provided its evidence in this case. Given it does not do so I cannot be satisfied that the contravention occurred.
The appeal is allowed.


This is an application by the Enforcement Authority for a review of the decision of the Adjudicator Mr Harman who allowed the Appellant's appeal.
Mr Harman's heard the appeal on 18 February 2016. His decision was premised on the fact that the Authority had not provided any evidence for the hearing. The Authority challenged the decision. It said that it was not notified of the appeal until 21 January 2016 by which time a Charge Certificate is issued.
When the appeal was received it appeared that the Penalty Charge Notice returned as invalid. The Enforcement Authority were therefore not automatically notified by the system that the matter was listed but the Appellant was.
That said, the Authority had not explained why it had not taken steps to submit the evidence once it found out on 21 February that there was to be an appeal. On 17 February, the Authority contacted the Tribunal. It stated that the Appellant had paid at the Charge Certificate rate so the appeal should be closed. An appeal cannot be closed on this basis. The Appellant had through no fault of his own received a Charge Certificate. He was out under pressure to pay despite having lodged an appeal and having his been notified that his appeal will be heard. I cannot see how the payment should be a ground for the appeal somehow to be closed.
I accept however that the initial processing of the appeal had caused a problem and the appeal should therefore be re-heard. Then I found that the Authority had still not submitted the recording of the alleged contravention. I must therefore allow the appeal. This means that all sums paid by the Appellant in relation to this case must be returned.


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DancingDad
post Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 20:54
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Any removal case can have an appeal (which LT will hear) despite PCN being paid at discount.

Can't find one specific but seem to remember a few where discount payment was made but authority did not accept as full payment, this situation can get to LT without the case being closed.

Would be interested to see the wording on your NOR.
Normal situation would be pay and the case is closed but as above, each case to its own merits.
2nd Normal situation is that if an appeal is made and lost, full payment would be due as discount period would have expired anyway.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 21:41
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Knew I'd seen a recent one.

2160465593

There is a long history in this matter in relation to footway parking at this location in Barnet.
The Appellant has appealed and paid the penalty of £110.00. I do not find this to be an admission of liability. It does not close an appeal that has been lodged and scheduled by this Tribunal. Only an Appellant can withdraw an appeal once it has been lodged
unless the Authority decides not to contest the Penalty Charge Notice.


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southpaw82
post Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 22:35
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The general rule of "you can't pay then appeal" seems to hold true. You can, in certain circumstances, appeal then pay and go on to win the appeal.


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Mr Mustard
post Fri, 9 Dec 2016 - 07:47
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It is the intention of the Secretary of State to create a system whereby motorists who pay at the beginning are rewarded by a lower penalty.

This from the statutory guidance.

"Where the enforcement authority receives full payment within 14 days of the service of the penalty charge notice, it must accept the discounted amount.

Unless the Secretary of State authorises a departure from the guidelines on the levels of penalty charges, the discount must be set at the applicable discount -
currently 50 per cent of the penalty charge. The authority should then close the case. When a penalty charge notice has been served by post using evidence
from an approved device, the discount period is 21 days from the date of service of the notice"

Any discount that is offered at a later stage is an extra-statutory concession from the local authority.

I have shied away from arguing that local authorities can't offer a conditional discount at the Notice of Rejection stage as many motorists who were late with
their challenges would suffer the full penalty when they still want to pay 50%. I do think though that offering a discount to buy a motorist out of the idea
of an Appeal is procedurally unfair, they are meant to accept or reject your representations.

If there is a Notice of Rejection the recipient has an absolute right to Appeal.

If you pay half and make an Appeal at about the same moment the tribunal may write and ask which course you wish to take before they register the Appeal.
I think this happens if the local authority spot the payment & ask the tribunal.

The standard decision letter says that if you have paid and then win your Appeal that sum has to be refunded.

What we do have to remember is that the PCN value is always 100% except for the first 14/21 days so logically any Appeal can only be at that value
unless the local authority decide to offer a lower amount.

I decide at the very beginning if there is a case or not and if I am acting it is for motorists who I expect to see the whole process through.

I would much prefer a system whereby there isn't a discount and then motorists minds would not have to focus on the price, they could use all of their mental
energy on the contravention.



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All advice given by me on PePiPoo is on a pro bono basis (i.e. free). PePiPoo relies on Donations so do donate if you can. Sometimes I will, in addition, personally offer to represent you at the tribunal & if you wish me to I will ask you to make a voluntary donation, if the Appeal is won, directly to the North London Hospice.
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Hippocrates
post Fri, 9 Dec 2016 - 22:19
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I have digested all this. However, the question remains: does the tribunal automatically allow appeals to be registered when the discount has been paid? Is this down to an adjudicator or the Chief Adjudicator?

As we all know: fighting PCNs is a dynamic task and, for example, one can pay the discount reoffer in the NOR and discover new evidence later.

In simple terms then, does anyone know of cases which have been refused at the first hurdle because the discount had already been paid?

This post has been edited by Hippocrates: Fri, 9 Dec 2016 - 22:20


--------------------
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

Donald Rumsfeld

There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"
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