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Red Route 20min Loading Bay no stopping at any time, I did load bulky items with passenger (not as bulky as planned)
pashmak
post Wed, 8 Jul 2015 - 22:35
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I stopped on a 'Red Route no stopping at any time except Loading Max 20 minutes' bay for about 5 minutes outside my friend's residence to load some heavy/bulky goods as I was helping him move some of his belongings. I had pre-arranged this with him and so he arrived a few moments after I parked. He had with him a heavy bulky duffle bag and a few small boxes however the other items weren't ready and he didn't bring them as planned. He loaded them into my car and got in and we drove off.

I have received a PCN code 46: stopped where prohibited (on a red route of clearway).
Have I been fined because the items weren't bulky enough or have I been fined because a passenger also alighted?
Do I have grounds for appeal?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by pashmak: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 07:50
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post Wed, 8 Jul 2015 - 22:35
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Natty
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 08:27
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You have been wrongly fined. My experience is they cancel the fine if you "make representations". They are really just trying it on; shaking the tree to see if any cash falls out.
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Tipthemout
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 08:52
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Start with the basics. Post up the entire PCN, ie all sides. Obscure your/keepers personal details, VRM and PCN number. LEAVE IN ALL DATES, TIMES AND LOCATION. Use tinypic.com to host the images and post the .img links here.
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pashmak
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 09:25
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Thanks both. The photo in the letter has zoomed into my front number plate. The details on the letter state the location.
I will send a photo of the letter when I get home tonight.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 09:41
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When you challenge, do not include things like friend was not quite ready or had to wait.
Loading is permissible in a loading bay and loading includes fetching and carrying.
Waiting is not so be careful how you phrase things.

But let's see the PCN and location and check things out.
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pashmak
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 13:37
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Location is: 219-221 Old Brompton Road SW5

See street view attached...

Will post PCN notice in a few hours...

This post has been edited by pashmak: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 18:32
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DastardlyDick
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 14:32
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You would have been served a PCN because the camera operator did not observe 'loading activity' for a minimum of 5 minutes, however, as DancingDad says "loading" includes taking goods into premises and obtaining a signature.

If it's the first time you've been "done" by TfL they may cancel the PCN if you write to them and tell them that you were actually loading, but be prepared to get something in writing from your friend to say that 'I met my friend at (time) and helped him load (items) into his car' just in case they decide not to.
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pashmak
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 18:30
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Thank you for all your replies thus far.

I have attached the actual PCN notice now...

CORRECTION: The address is not number 120 as stated in one of my earlier posts, it is 219-221 Old Brompton Road SW5

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DancingDad
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 20:21
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One of the new TFL ones with wrong rules of service. Clear PI IMO but an adjudicator hasn't seen these yet as far as I know.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 20:30
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Page 9 point 4 may help


http://www.londontravelwatch.org.uk/docume...&field=file


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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hcandersen
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 20:53
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Your account is unclear.

Have you seen their video of the events, if not you should.

Are you saying that you parked in the bay; no activity occurred for some time; your friend arrived on foot carrying a duffle bag and a few small boxes and then boarded after which you immediately drove away?

Were they carrying the boxes in their arms in the open (Crackerjack style!) or what?

You must give us the exact sequence of events (and timing if you 're sure).
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pashmak
post Thu, 9 Jul 2015 - 23:12
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hcandersen, Not seen the video. Have to go to a TFL office during office hours to view it or pay £10 to have it sent to me...I remember some years ago it was emailed to me free of charge.

Yes I waited 5 mins max until he arrived, yes he arrived on foot from his building carrying a duffel bag and a few small boxes and boarded after which we immediately drove away.

This is very interesting! The number of representations received at the same loading bay that I have been issues the fine for, how many have been accepted and rejected!

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/pcn_...21_old_brompton

Date of Issue Represenations Recieved
Year Month Accepted Rejecetd Total
2010 Apr 5 1 6
May 2 0 2
Jun 5 4 9
Jul 6 4 10
Aug 7 4 11
Sep 2 1 3
Oct 4 2 6
Nov 6 4 10
Dec 2 3 5
2011 Jan 4 1 5
Feb 3 2 5
Mar 4 5 9
Apr 4 3 7
May 8 5 13
Jun 12 4 16
Jul 11 1 12
Aug 7 3 10
Sep 9 5 14
Oct 9 3 12
Nov 16 8 24
Dec 26 27 53
2012 Jan 10 6 16
2013 Feb 6 18 24
Mar 20 55 75
188 169 357
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pashmak
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 09:05
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So I requested video evidence and they (TFL) said it would take 10 days.

I have called them once more since then and they said to wait a few days longer. That was last Thursday now it's Wednesday.

What happens if they don't send it to me? Will the ticket be annulled?!
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pashmak
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 09:13
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I have requested video evidence of my alleged parking contravention but not received it yet.

I called them again last Thursday and they said it might take a few days longer. Now it's Wednesday.

If they don't send it to me, will that annul my PCN?

Should I call them again?
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hcandersen
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 09:28
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You requested a copy of the video as specified on page 2 of the PCN, yes?

They replied advising that enforcement is on hold, yes?

The PCN is dated 19 June and your request to TfL for a copy of the video was in what form and dated when?

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DastardlyDick
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 09:33
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Please post up the original PCN/NtO with Reg. No., PCN No. and any adress details obscured/redacted, along with any other correspondance between you and TfL similarly obscured/redacted. A Google Street View link to the location of the alleged contravention would also assist.

What was the date of the alleged contravention, and how long afterwards did you make the first phone call to them?

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John U.K.
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 10:16
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Is this the same alleged contravention as this thread:
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1097111 ?

If so ask a mod to merge.
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pashmak
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 15:05
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Hi hcandersen,

The PCN is from TFL and I contacted TFL via phone.

TFL advised they would postpone deadline for a further 15 days to allow enough time for the video to arrive.

The video will be posted in the email....not sure whether CD, USB stick?! lol

8th July - Received PCN
15 or 16th July - Requested Video
23rd July - Called TFL to remind them about video
29th July - today, no sign of it so far - 10 working day today or tomorrow.

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pashmak
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 15:07
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Hi John, Yes it is the same....I have posted the same details there. I thought that one might not get much notice as the subject is related to my original question.
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astralite
post Wed, 29 Jul 2015 - 15:41
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As it has not arrived yet, write to them as well reminding them of your request and the date you made it.
Keep a copy of the letter. Get proof of posting.

Please ask a moderator to remove or merge the duplicate thread you started. Everything needs to be on the
same thread and duplicates waste reading time.
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