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SJPN exceptional hardship
Rocket123
post Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 22:18
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Hey guys need a little advice

I currently have 6 point for an SP30 last year
I have just done 67 in a 40 resulting in an SP40, silly mistake no doubt
This would put me up to 12 points i.e toting up ban

I have just received the SJPN and it says I have the option to plead without attending court. Or plead guilty and attend court.

My question is, if I complete the forms and mention my exception hardship plea in the mitigation section will that be enough to be a valid plea. Or do I need to opt to attend court for the exceptional hardship plea to be valid? will I just get called automatically when they detect im now on 12 points?

I guess my hope is I can present the exceptional hardship plea via this SJPN and not attend court and perhaps be awarded less than the 6 point necessary for a totting up ban. My plea would be base on requiring the car as part of my work in the medical field and the adverse impacts to patients.

Any idea would be grately appreciated. Iv almost entire stopped driving due to the stress and anxiety I've cause myself here.
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post Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 22:18
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Logician
post Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 22:50
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You do have the option to plead guilty without attending court, but when you send in your plea of guilty you will be asked to attend court for disqualification to be considered. Under some circumstances you can be disqualified in your absence but normally it is preferable for you to be present so that you are in no doubt that you have been disqualified. You certainly cannot put forward an exceptional hardship argument by post, the court will want to hear what you say and question you about it.

Although everyone is very grateful to the NHS, working in the medical field is not a 'get out of jail free card' the first question will be whether you are the only person able to care for these patients, unless you can put up a convincing case that patients will actually suffer you are unlikely to succeed, there is a strong feeling around that exceptional hardship arguments have been accepted far too readily. If you have already almost entirely stopped driving, you have effectively proved that having a licence is not necessary for you.

Incidentally, DVLA licence codes have nothing to do with the limit broken, you will not get an SP40 code unless you were driving a passenger vehicle.


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TMC Towcester
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 05:51
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QUOTE (Rocket123 @ Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 23:18) *
.... My plea would be base on requiring the car as part of my work in the medical field and the adverse impacts to patients.

Iv almost entire stopped driving due to the stress and anxiety I've cause myself here.


As above - this contradictory situation needs to be righted before any EH plea can be made and even then the chances are low. Are you actually a medical professional or 'only' working in the industry? E.g. medical equipment sales or distribution is very different from a practicing doctor, nurse etc?
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Rocket123
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 06:09
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QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 23:50) *
You do have the option to plead guilty without attending court, but when you send in your plea of guilty you will be asked to attend court for disqualification to be considered. Under some circumstances you can be disqualified in your absence but normally it is preferable for you to be present so that you are in no doubt that you have been disqualified. You certainly cannot put forward an exceptional hardship argument by post, the court will want to hear what you say and question you about it.

Although everyone is very grateful to the NHS, working in the medical field is not a 'get out of jail free card' the first question will be whether you are the only person able to care for these patients, unless you can put up a convincing case that patients will actually suffer you are unlikely to succeed, there is a strong feeling around that exceptional hardship arguments have been accepted far too readily. If you have already almost entirely stopped driving, you have effectively proved that having a licence is not necessary for you.

Incidentally, DVLA licence codes have nothing to do with the limit broken, you will not get an SP40 code unless you were driving a passenger vehicle.


Thanks for the response. Yes I am medical and practicing.I’m not using it as a get out of jail free card. I’ve stopped driving for many of my close by shifts, started cycling, but I still need to drive for my on call shifts and home visits. I can’t be easily replaced as we are extremely badly staffed. So I do need the car. If I cycle/take the bus to my on calls i can’t quickly attend emergencies at the cross site hospital out of hours neither can I perform prompt home visits in an emergency. So patient care would indeed suffer. Not only that, my colleagues will potentially end up being stuck waiting for me during handover if I’m late due to a 2 hour commute. I feels these are valid arguments but I’m happy to be corrected.

Also, when it comes to completing this form What would would normally be suitable for the mitigation section that would potentially reduce points given to less than 6? Perhaps this will allow me to avoid going to court in the first instance? Thanks again

This post has been edited by Rocket123: Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 06:22
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The Rookie
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 06:15
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QUOTE (Rocket123 @ Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 23:18) *
I have just done 67 in a 40 resulting in an SP40, silly mistake no doubt

Common misconception, but the number after SP has nothing to do with the limit, this will (should) also be an SP30. You're in good company as even some courts get it wrong.

https://www.smithbowyerclarke.co.uk/what-do...code-sp30-mean/


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Jlc
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 07:52
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QUOTE (Rocket123 @ Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 07:09) *
Also, when it comes to completing this form What would would normally be suitable for the mitigation section that would potentially reduce points given to less than 6? Perhaps this will allow me to avoid going to court in the first instance?

The guidance for exceeding 66 (in a 40) is 6 points. They are highly unlikely to award 5.

A short ban (a couple of weeks or so) is more likely but they may not want to circumvent totting.

I'd start preparing an Exceptional Hardship plea - worth noting the guidance here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Rocket123
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 08:36
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 08:52) *
QUOTE (Rocket123 @ Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 07:09) *
Also, when it comes to completing this form What would would normally be suitable for the mitigation section that would potentially reduce points given to less than 6? Perhaps this will allow me to avoid going to court in the first instance?

The guidance for exceeding 66 (in a 40) is 6 points. They are highly unlikely to award 5.

A short ban (a couple of weeks or so) is more likely but they may not want to circumvent totting.

I'd start preparing an Exceptional Hardship plea - worth noting the guidance here.

thanks for you response. So do I leave the mitigation section blank for this current offense? And wait to be called to court later on to present my EH plea. Or do I admit that this offense will lead to totting and try and cram in a sort of EH in the mitigation section of this offense? If I leave it blank will I lose my shot at an EH plea.
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Jlc
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 08:48
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I doubt you have any actual mitigation for the offence, i.e. that would lessen the sentence.

If they are considering a ban or issue points that cause totting then they will ask you to attend court where you can present your plea.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 09:31
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What mitigation do you think you may have? Note that an absence of an aggravating factor isn't a mitigating one.


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Logician
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 11:58
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QUOTE (Rocket123 @ Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 07:09) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 23:50) *
You do have the option to plead guilty without attending court, but when you send in your plea of guilty you will be asked to attend court for disqualification to be considered. Under some circumstances you can be disqualified in your absence but normally it is preferable for you to be present so that you are in no doubt that you have been disqualified. You certainly cannot put forward an exceptional hardship argument by post, the court will want to hear what you say and question you about it.

Although everyone is very grateful to the NHS, working in the medical field is not a 'get out of jail free card' the first question will be whether you are the only person able to care for these patients, unless you can put up a convincing case that patients will actually suffer you are unlikely to succeed, there is a strong feeling around that exceptional hardship arguments have been accepted far too readily. If you have already almost entirely stopped driving, you have effectively proved that having a licence is not necessary for you.

Incidentally, DVLA licence codes have nothing to do with the limit broken, you will not get an SP40 code unless you were driving a passenger vehicle.


Thanks for the response. Yes I am medical and practicing.I’m not using it as a get out of jail free card. I’ve stopped driving for many of my close by shifts, started cycling, but I still need to drive for my on call shifts and home visits. I can’t be easily replaced as we are extremely badly staffed. So I do need the car. If I cycle/take the bus to my on calls i can’t quickly attend emergencies at the cross site hospital out of hours neither can I perform prompt home visits in an emergency. So patient care would indeed suffer. Not only that, my colleagues will potentially end up being stuck waiting for me during handover if I’m late due to a 2 hour commute. I feels these are valid arguments but I’m happy to be corrected.

Also, when it comes to completing this form What would would normally be suitable for the mitigation section that would potentially reduce points given to less than 6? Perhaps this will allow me to avoid going to court in the first instance? Thanks again


Good, that starts to form a basis for EH, you need to be prepared for questions on alternative means of transport and so on. Unless you were actually called to an emergency situation when you were speeding, and can provide good evidence of that, which might indeed provide a defence rather than mitigation, it is unlikely that you will have mitigation available, there rarely is in speeding cases, and often people put as mitigation matters which in fact tend to aggravation more than mitigation, to give an example "I had walked out of the house after a major row with my partner and my mind was in such a turmoil I did not notice the speed limit signs" that may be an explanation, but raises the question of whether it was safe to drive in the circumstances.


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The Rookie
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 12:28
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You may as well play the coronavirus card as well, making an essential healthworker use public transport further increasing the risk of the NHS being down a staff member.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

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martinbiz
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 14:36
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Also see here
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=136353
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Rocket123
post Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 20:56
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QUOTE (Logician @ Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 12:58) *
QUOTE (Rocket123 @ Tue, 20 Oct 2020 - 07:09) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 19 Oct 2020 - 23:50) *
You do have the option to plead guilty without attending court, but when you send in your plea of guilty you will be asked to attend court for disqualification to be considered. Under some circumstances you can be disqualified in your absence but normally it is preferable for you to be present so that you are in no doubt that you have been disqualified. You certainly cannot put forward an exceptional hardship argument by post, the court will want to hear what you say and question you about it.

Although everyone is very grateful to the NHS, working in the medical field is not a 'get out of jail free card' the first question will be whether you are the only person able to care for these patients, unless you can put up a convincing case that patients will actually suffer you are unlikely to succeed, there is a strong feeling around that exceptional hardship arguments have been accepted far too readily. If you have already almost entirely stopped driving, you have effectively proved that having a licence is not necessary for you.

Incidentally, DVLA licence codes have nothing to do with the limit broken, you will not get an SP40 code unless you were driving a passenger vehicle.


Thanks for the response. Yes I am medical and practicing.I’m not using it as a get out of jail free card. I’ve stopped driving for many of my close by shifts, started cycling, but I still need to drive for my on call shifts and home visits. I can’t be easily replaced as we are extremely badly staffed. So I do need the car. If I cycle/take the bus to my on calls i can’t quickly attend emergencies at the cross site hospital out of hours neither can I perform prompt home visits in an emergency. So patient care would indeed suffer. Not only that, my colleagues will potentially end up being stuck waiting for me during handover if I’m late due to a 2 hour commute. I feels these are valid arguments but I’m happy to be corrected.

Also, when it comes to completing this form What would would normally be suitable for the mitigation section that would potentially reduce points given to less than 6? Perhaps this will allow me to avoid going to court in the first instance? Thanks again


Good, that starts to form a basis for EH, you need to be prepared for questions on alternative means of transport and so on. Unless you were actually called to an emergency situation when you were speeding, and can provide good evidence of that, which might indeed provide a defence rather than mitigation, it is unlikely that you will have mitigation available, there rarely is in speeding cases, and often people put as mitigation matters which in fact tend to aggravation more than mitigation, to give an example "I had walked out of the house after a major row with my partner and my mind was in such a turmoil I did not notice the speed limit signs" that may be an explanation, but raises the question of whether it was safe to drive in the circumstances.


I guess I don't have any mitigation in that case. I am very much grateful for the help here, will keep you guys posted when the time comes.
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peodude
post Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 09:48
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Bear in mind as well that EH arguements can only be used once. One more offence in the next 2 years and you'll be struggling, especially given the excess speeds for the points already incurred. You don't say if you have the speed awareness course lifeline available for a further 3 point offence.
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NewJudge
post Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 10:03
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QUOTE (peodude @ Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 10:48) *
One more offence in the next 2 years and you'll be struggling, especially given the excess speeds for the points already incurred.


It's three years. And the facts surrounding the offences which lead to "totting up" are not considered when an EH argument is heard.
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peodude
post Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 10:37
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 11:03) *
QUOTE (peodude @ Wed, 21 Oct 2020 - 10:48) *
One more offence in the next 2 years and you'll be struggling, especially given the excess speeds for the points already incurred.


It's three years. And the facts surrounding the offences which lead to "totting up" are not considered when an EH argument is heard.


First 6 points were last year, so 2 years before they are no longer counted, leaving him on 6.

I meant given the two 'six pointers' involved, they're going to have to be careful going forward as there seems to be a resonable chance of more points.
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Rocket123
post Sun, 30 May 2021 - 15:39
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Just an update guys. The court asked me why they should consider me for exceptional hardship in the case I’m given 6 points. I explained my role in the medical field and the fact I need the car for patients. They gave me a telling off and gave me 5 points so avoided a totting up ban. I’m now on 11 points and have learned a very big lesson
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andy_foster
post Sun, 30 May 2021 - 16:53
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As you are presumably aware, what they should have done was given you the appropriate number of points for the offence and then if it took you to 12 decide whether or not to reduce or disapply the ban because of exceptional hardship. But they didn't, which is nice.

The significant difference is not that you only have 11 points rather than 12, but that your exceptional hardship grounds have not been used to reduce a totting up ban - meaning that if you do manage to get caught committing another endorseable offence in the next 2 years, you are still able to use them. If you had 'totted up' to 12 points and had been allowed to keep your licence due to exceptional hardship, you would not be able to use the same grounds again within the next 3 years.


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