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Stopping on a pedestrian crossing
matt50
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:17
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Hi all

Newbie to the forum and a little worried so please be patient.

Essentially when driving through London this morning the traffic was rather bad and with the combination of yellow box junctions and pelican/puffin crossings I ended up getting stuck and stopping over the crossing. My understanding is this is now a decriminalised offence, so if I was caught on CCTV I would be dealt with by the council and not given points, and the police won't enforce this by CCTV and give me points. Am I correct? Sorry, I did this a few times today and don't want to end up with 9 points!

Cheers,
Matt
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post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:17
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stamfordman
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:34
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If this is about zebra crossings (and other types of crossing) I believe there is no offence or contravention for stopping on one in a traffic queue. The Highway Code just says you shouldn't do it as it's obviously inconsiderate.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:36
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matt50
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:36
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No it was on a pelican crossing. I know it was inconsiderate but just trying to avoid the yellow box fine!
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:41
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QUOTE (matt50 @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:36) *
No it was on a pelican crossing. I know it was inconsiderate but just trying to avoid the yellow box fine!


stopping in the controlled area is decriminalised, but it is not a contravention to stop in traffic


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John U.K.
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:51
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QUOTE
Essentially when driving through London this morning the traffic was rather bad and with the combination of yellow box junctions and pelican/puffin crossings I ended up getting stuck and stopping over the crossing.


Perhaps post up a GSV (Google street View) link to the road(s) in question.
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peterguk
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 16:35
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QUOTE (matt50 @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 15:17) *
I ended up ... stopping over the crossing. I did this a few times today...


Simple answer - don't move forward until there is room for you to clear the crossing.


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DancingDad
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 16:53
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I thnk I have only ever seen one decriminalised PCN for stopping on a crossing.
And if the stop is because you are being prevented by other traffic, no contravention AFAIK.

See if a PCN appears and if so, come back.
Otherwise, stop worrying on it.
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Guest_Bogsy_*
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:20
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It can be enforced either by the Police (FPN) or council (PCN).

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2007/34...gulation/7/made

See 14 & 15 in the link which explains the rules

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/made

This post has been edited by Bogsy: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:24
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Neil B
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:57
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I suspect he's not talking about crossings protected by zig zags but this kind at
signal controlled junctions.

Maybe?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Water+L...#33;6m1!1e1


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
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matt50
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:34
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:57) *
I suspect he's not talking about crossings protected by zig zags but this kind at
signal controlled junctions.

Maybe?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Water+L...#33;6m1!1e1


Yes that's it, pretty much exactly. Stopping within the white spots as part of traffic.
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Guest_Bogsy_*
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:34
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QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:57) *
I suspect he's not talking about crossings protected by zig zags but this kind at
signal controlled junctions.

Maybe?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Water+L...#33;6m1!1e1


Those markings appear to be to diagram 1055.1 and in conjunction with the lights form a puffin crossing. I believe a puffin crossing is a "pedestrian crossing" as defined in the 2007 Gen Regs and so any contravention could result in either a council PCN or Police FPN. I think it falls under a "Section 25 Crossing" and so Part 5 regulates.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/made
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peterguk
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:57
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QUOTE (matt50 @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:34) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:57) *
I suspect he's not talking about crossings protected by zig zags but this kind at
signal controlled junctions.

Maybe?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Water+L...#33;6m1!1e1


Yes that's it, pretty much exactly. Stopping within the white spots as part of traffic.


So you chose to drive onto the crossing knowing you couldn't exit 2nd line of white spots. Easy answer to that one...


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matt50
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 19:02
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:57) *
QUOTE (matt50 @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:34) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:57) *
I suspect he's not talking about crossings protected by zig zags but this kind at
signal controlled junctions.

Maybe?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Water+L...#33;6m1!1e1


Yes that's it, pretty much exactly. Stopping within the white spots as part of traffic.


So you chose to drive onto the crossing knowing you couldn't exit 2nd line of white spots. Easy answer to that one...


Just asking for some advice about whether I'm likely to get a ticket, not driving advice. The issue arises when there is a pedestrian crossing and a pretty large yellow box after the traffic lights, and yes in an ideal world this wouldn't happen. But try driving through Central London during rush hour and sometimes mistakes happen.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 20:53
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just to be clear. If you stop in the normal course of traffic then the “council” cannot issue a PCN well they can but would be an easy win nor can the police issue a FPN If you stop in the normal course
of traffic over the crossing area, so partly beyond the white stop line, the lights turn red and you move you may commit a red light offence only the police can act on this


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Neil B
post Thu, 16 Feb 2017 - 10:49
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QUOTE (Bogsy @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 18:34) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Wed, 15 Feb 2017 - 17:57) *
I suspect he's not talking about crossings protected by zig zags but this kind at
signal controlled junctions.

Maybe?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Water+L...#33;6m1!1e1


Those markings appear to be to diagram 1055.1 and in conjunction with the lights form a puffin crossing. I believe a puffin crossing is a "pedestrian crossing" as defined in the 2007 Gen Regs and so any contravention could result in either a council PCN or Police FPN. I think it falls under a "Section 25 Crossing" and so Part 5 regulates.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/14/made

Thanks Bogs.
Effectively that renders the area between stop line and second dotted line subject to the same rules as a YBJ but would require
a judgement of 'endangering other road users'. I'm not comfortable with Councils making such a call.

In practice, at junctions busy with pedestrians, it is often they that endanger themselves.
i.e. they will frequently ignore the pedestrian signals if you leave the crossing clear, hindering your progress when space develops
and putting themselves at risk from free flowing traffic in lanes to your left.

I've lost count of the times a child buggy (astounding choice by the parent) is thrust in front of my bumper when
I'm about to continue forward on green.



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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