PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PCN Smart Parking
Smoggy14
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 21:53
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



The registered keeper has received a PCN for "not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted, in accordance with the terms and conditions set out in the signage, the Parking Charge is now payable to Smart Parking Ltd (as the Creditor)"
The registered keeper was not the driver. The driver has a receipt and Visa statement as proof of purchases at three of the stores on the retail park. The driver did not see the signage about the parking restrictions and stayed on the retail park for 2hours and 59mins...the limit is 3 hours but reduced to 90 minutes on a match day, Not sure if this is football/rugby/cricket as images of the signs have not yet been obtained. There was a football match played that day during the times the vehicle was at the retail park. How best is it to proceed with an appeal as the registered keeper had no part in the parking process or attendance at the retail park?

This post has been edited by Smoggy14: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 22:10
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 15)
Advertisement
post Mon, 9 Oct 2017 - 21:53
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 01:18
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15,166
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



As usual
BPA appeal from the MSE newbies thread
Smart reject and send a popla code
4000 word popla appeal means they fold

They’re a doddle to beat.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 10 Oct 2017 - 08:26
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,241
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



So how do they define a match day? Unclear signage. If you're not interested in football, rugby or whatever how could you possibly know it was a match day?

The driver should go to the several stores visited, with proof of purchases, and ask them to get the charge cancelled.

As well as the appeal above.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Wed, 11 Oct 2017 - 21:34
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



Thank you for your advice....the retail park does have signs up. I have only been able to take a pic of one as the one near the entrance is on double yellow lines. I went last night and felt intimidated as it was quite eerie and therefore only took one photo which I can't upload. It does say 3hrs max stay and max stay on match days 90 mins. There are also signs saying appeals for PCN cannot be dealt with on site.
I tried to take the photo from inside the car but had to pull up to take the photo from outside... the sign then goes on to confirm when a PCN would be issued ie Parking in a disabled bay without displaying a valid disabled badge/parked out of a marked bay/parking over 90 mins on a match day only/parking over 3 hours all other times. On this basis does the below appeal still apply. Also the driver does have receipt and visa statement showing purchases made.
Also the ANPR photos show the double yellow lines at entry and exit of the car park meaning that the vehicle was moving and not parked.


I refer to the above Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued by Smart Parking Ltd (“Smart”) as a Notice to Keeper in respect of an alleged contravention of the terms and conditions of parking at Kilner Way Retail Park, Sheffield on 24th September 2017 I confirm I am the keeper of this vehicle for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“PoFA”) and I write to formally dispute the validity of this PCN. ONLY strict adherence to Schedule 4 of the Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 can cause a keeper to be liable. The PCN makes no attempt to pass liability to the keeper. A vehicle can be driven by any person (with the consent of the owner) as long as the driver is insured.

As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4.

This exact finding was made in 6061796103 against ParkingEye in September 2016, where POPLA Assessor Carly Law found: ''I note the operator advises that it is not attempting to transfer the liability for the charge using the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and so in mind, the operator continues to hold the driver responsible. As such, I must first consider whether I am confident that I know who the driver is, based on the evidence received. After considering the evidence, I am unable to confirm that the appellant is in fact the driver. As such, I must allow the appeal on the basis that the operator has failed to demonstrate that the appellant is the driver and therefore liable for the charge. As I am allowing the appeal on this basis, I do not need to consider the other grounds of appeal raised by the appellant. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.''

You have two options:
Cancel the charge forthwith, or,
Provide me with a POPLA code in order that I may arrange for POPLA to instruct you to cancel it.

Any other action or lack of action by yourselves may lead to a claim for improper use of my personal information.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 10:43
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



I have lodged my appeal as above. I hope it's ok?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 14:02
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



I,m not confident in my appeal. Perhaps the reason given doesn't fit? I'm struggling to get my head round all the legal stuff on POFA- paragraph 9 etc. Should I have just appealed on the fact that the driver was a customer? unsure.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 14:21
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,610
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



Why do you need to be confident, you have been told to expect rejection from appeal to Smart.

QUOTE
As usual
BPA appeal from the MSE newbies thread
Smart reject and send a popla code
4000 word popla appeal means they fold


The advice is good and will work, why post asking for help and then ignore the advice given.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Thu, 12 Oct 2017 - 15:17
Post #8


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



I haven't ignored the advice. I'm no legal expert and have tried to negotiate my way round the threads and topic and thought the above appeal suited best. However after re reading POFA for the 1000th time I'm not sure that this was the best reason for appeal. Or if it's going to be rejected does it not matter and I then do the 4000 word POPLA appeal. Don't be such a mardy bum. I'll come back when I get rejected by SMART if you're still willing to help
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Sat, 14 Oct 2017 - 17:18
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 15,166
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Be snippy and you’ll likely get ignored

Smart reject first appeals. If they didn’t they’d make no money. The fi3st appeal is a farce.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Sun, 15 Oct 2017 - 22:02
Post #10


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



Apologies icon_redface.gif
Below are photos of some of the signs at the retail park. The one showing the double yellow lines is the first sign which is located approximately 50yards as you enter the road towards the retail park. From this it is not clear as whilst driving the sign is not easily read and the 3hrs is most dominant.





Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 07:37
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,241
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



Contradicting signs, the small one tjhat would appear tobe as you drive by it says unequivocally "Max stay 3 hours". There is some text underneath but no chance of reading it while driving. The other sign varies this first sign but does not specify what they mean by match days, nor provide details about the match days. That mass of small text is ridiculous, how many of these are dispersed in the car park?. So which sign creates a contract?

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 07:38
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cabbyman
post Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 14:45
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,395
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
From: Hampshire
Member No.: 16,066



Match days?

Is that the days that Bryant & May have open days in the local One Stop?


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 16:09
Post #13


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



I've researched the owners of the retail park being Derwent Group-this has a link to the Kilner Way Retail Park website which in turn has an information about parking tab. Part of the narrative stipulates During events at the Football ground length of stay is limited to 90 minutes with no return within 2 hours. Please note disabled concessions do not apply.. There are a numerous variety of signs in the car park from disabled/mother and toddler/terms and conditions etc. Gala Bingo have negotiated a deal for their clients. .Derwent Group Values Statement OUR MISSION IS SIMPLE, MAXIMISE PROFIT TO MAXIMISE GOOD
The current employees of The Derwent Group are charged by its Founder, Albert Gubay, with the creation of an organisation that is worthy of his ambition to use its profits for good purposes.

Every penny we make will be used to help someone and every penny we waste is lost to someone in need.

WE MUST follow in the Founder’s footsteps and be strong minded to be soft hearted,
WE MUST not waste,
WE MUST be frugal to pass on as much as we can and
WE MUST work hard now to help others in the future.

These are the things against which we will measure ourselves and those we do business with
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 16:36
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,241
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



But if the signs are not clear on what match they are talking about then how is a stranger to know? Unclear signage in the appeal then
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 19:02
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,610
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



QUOTE
Derwent Group-this has a link to the Kilner Way Retail Park website


So unless this webpage is on the signs the webpage has no effect as the driver would be unaware of the website contents.

You need to concentrate on what they did wrong, not what you did wrong, you could hardly be expected to have to do 2 hrs googling in advance of using a car park to find out the vagaries of using it and the definition of a match. In consumer law where there are multiple interpretations of a clause the least damaging to the consumer is the one that rules. All that counts is the signs that were there and what they said or did not say if they could be read.

Where there is any ambiguity it should be resolved in favour of the consumer according to S.69 Consumer Rights Act 2015
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smoggy14
post Mon, 16 Oct 2017 - 19:45
Post #16


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 9 Oct 2017
Member No.: 94,438



Thank you for your clarity and your support. I await the rejection of my submitted appeal in order that I can take to POPLA.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Sunday, 18th February 2018 - 20:00
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.