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[NIP Wizard] Essex Police - 59 mph in a 50 zone - A13 TRUNK ROAD (WESTBOUND BTWN STIFFORD & WENNINGTON INTERCHANGES) AVERLEY
samosa111
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:10
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - May 2018
Date of the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 8 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A13 TRUNK ROAD (WESTBOUND BTWN STIFFORD & WENNINGTON INTERCHANGES) AVERLEY
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 6
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I do not recall speeding but may have tipped over the speed limit to momentarily overtake a vehicle or convoy of vehicles in order to avoid missing my exit/turning

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 17 May 2018 17:10:26 +0000

This post has been edited by samosa111: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:55
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post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:10
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peterguk
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:16
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Alleged speed? Limit?

Obviously, speeding when overtaking is no defence.


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morrisman
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:31
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:16) *
Alleged speed? Limit?

Obviously, speeding when overtaking is no defence.

59 in a 50 according to the thread title
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peterguk
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:47
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QUOTE (morrisman @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:31) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:16) *
Alleged speed? Limit?

Obviously, speeding when overtaking is no defence.

59 in a 50 according to the thread title


Thanks. Missed that.

So a SAC will be the result if not done one in last 3 years.


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samosa111
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:52
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QUOTE (morrisman @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:31) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:16) *
Alleged speed? Limit?

Obviously, speeding when overtaking is no defence.

59 in a 50 according to the thread title



Yes that is correct - the NIP stated 50 mph was the limit and I was doing 59. I have no reason to doubt either of this figures and assume they are correct.

I genuinely do not recall speeding. I can only guess that I would have been trying to overtake one or more vehicles in order to get past them and make it to my turning (those are the only times I have unwittingly increased speed). Another instance may be if I have had to overtake to get out of the way of a vehicle behind me. The other time would be where one stretch of road has a higher speed limit which suddenly drops to a lower level - perhaps the camera caught me whilst my speed was decreasing. Without photographic evidence, I can't be sure. Is there any way to request this to help job my memory?

This post has been edited by samosa111: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:53
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Jlc
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:55
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None of the above amounts to a defence.

You can ask for a photo - usually best to state to assist in the identification of the driver.

You are still required to name the driver regardless - failing to do so is 6 points which would cause you to tot. (Potential 6 months ban)


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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122basy
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 07:14
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QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:52) *
QUOTE (morrisman @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:31) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:16) *
Alleged speed? Limit?

Obviously, speeding when overtaking is no defence.

59 in a 50 according to the thread title



Yes that is correct - the NIP stated 50 mph was the limit and I was doing 59. I have no reason to doubt either of this figures and assume they are correct.

I genuinely do not recall speeding. I can only guess that I would have been trying to overtake one or more vehicles in order to get past them and make it to my turning (those are the only times I have unwittingly increased speed). Another instance may be if I have had to overtake to get out of the way of a vehicle behind me. The other time would be where one stretch of road has a higher speed limit which suddenly drops to a lower level - perhaps the camera caught me whilst my speed was decreasing. Without photographic evidence, I can't be sure. Is there any way to request this to help job my memory?

Is that an average speed camera system at that location? I think it is. A momentary lapse would need to be either very high speed or you have had a long moment at 59.
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Jlc
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 07:42
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Probably this 50.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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122basy
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 08:43
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and these cameras at the start
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samosa111
post Sat, 19 May 2018 - 08:30
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:55) *
None of the above amounts to a defence.

You can ask for a photo - usually best to state to assist in the identification of the driver.

You are still required to name the driver regardless - failing to do so is 6 points which would cause you to tot. (Potential 6 months ban)



I'll request a photo using the wording suggested above. I am assuming they will end up providing a photo of me. Is there any scope/excuse for getting out of this penalty?

This post has been edited by samosa111: Sat, 19 May 2018 - 08:31
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cp8759
post Sat, 19 May 2018 - 08:52
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QUOTE (samosa111 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:30) *
I'll request a photo using the wording suggested above. I am assuming they will end up providing a photo of me. Is there any scope/excuse for getting out of this penalty?

From what you've said so far, no.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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samosa111
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 13:08
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:52) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:30) *
I'll request a photo using the wording suggested above. I am assuming they will end up providing a photo of me. Is there any scope/excuse for getting out of this penalty?

From what you've said so far, no.


If that is the case, is there any point in requesting photographic evidence? Apologies if I have missed something. Should I, instead, just provide my details and accept the points & fine?


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peterguk
post Sun, 20 May 2018 - 17:00
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QUOTE (samosa111 @ Sun, 20 May 2018 - 14:08) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:52) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:30) *
I'll request a photo using the wording suggested above. I am assuming they will end up providing a photo of me. Is there any scope/excuse for getting out of this penalty?

From what you've said so far, no.


If that is the case, is there any point in requesting photographic evidence? Apologies if I have missed something. Should I, instead, just provide my details and accept the points & fine?


It is not unusual for the photos to display numerical data supporting the allegation. For those who dispute the allegation the evidence in the photos will often put the mind at rest of the accused that they are not being accused unfairly.


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samosa111
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 17:51
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 20 May 2018 - 18:00) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Sun, 20 May 2018 - 14:08) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:52) *
QUOTE (samosa111 @ Sat, 19 May 2018 - 09:30) *
I'll request a photo using the wording suggested above. I am assuming they will end up providing a photo of me. Is there any scope/excuse for getting out of this penalty?

From what you've said so far, no.


If that is the case, is there any point in requesting photographic evidence? Apologies if I have missed something. Should I, instead, just provide my details and accept the points & fine?


It is not unusual for the photos to display numerical data supporting the allegation. For those who dispute the allegation the evidence in the photos will often put the mind at rest of the accused that they are not being accused unfairly.



So I've received two photos which show (what looks like) photos from cameras C7L3 and C10L3 taken at 14:14:35 and 14:12:59 respectively.

I had hoped that the photos would provide a clear indication of where the offence occurred and whether there were any other vehicles around (which I may have been overtaking) or whether another car had triggered the speed camera but inadvertently mine was picked up as the perpetrator. I cannot locate the position of these cameras on Google Streetview.

I genuinely do not understand how I could have been speeding. But sadly they show nothing more than just my vehicle. I can only guess this must be a part of the road where the speed limit drops from a higher limit to one which is lower and I must not have noticed.

Click here to see photos


Do let me have your suggestions as to what I should do.

Thanks in advance!

This post has been edited by samosa111: Thu, 24 May 2018 - 17:56
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Attached File  Scan_2.compressed.pdf ( 169.38K ) Number of downloads: 26
 
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peterguk
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 18:10
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QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 18:51) *
Do let me have your suggestions as to what I should do.


Ensure you name the driver within 28 days of receipt of the notice.


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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 24 May 2018 - 18:43
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QUOTE (samosa111 @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 18:51) *
I had hoped that the photos would provide a clear indication of where the offence occurred and whether there were any other vehicles around (which I may have been overtaking) or whether another car had triggered the speed camera but inadvertently mine was picked up as the perpetrator.

Since it is a average speed section, no triggering occurred. You car was simply seen to have passed two cameras, and the average speed calculated by the distance/time calculation. Which suggests it was not caused by overtaking.
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samosa111
post Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 09:47
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Just for the benefit of everyone, I thought I would report back. I returned the documents with my details as the driver. I was contacted shortly after and offered a speed awareness course (which I have accepted).
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andysterling
post Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 19:01
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I know this has been concluded, but i've been working in east London recently and wanted to work out my average speed (going off dashcam) between two cameras further down the A13 near Dagenham, so looked up your camera locations as well, from what i can tell from the photos they're in the below photo.

2.6km in for the distance works out at ~60mph.
Attached Image


This post has been edited by andysterling: Sat, 16 Jun 2018 - 19:02
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