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[NIP Wizard] No valid insurance
coke_zero
post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 17:44
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? - Met police
Date of the offence: - 17/1/18
Date of the NIP: - 17/1/18
Date you received the NIP: Verbally
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Swandon way SW11
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Yes
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Brother of the registered keeper
How many current points do you have? - 9
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons -

Was driving home in my sisters car from doing some shopping - went to refill fuel at petrol station and there was a marked police car sitting there. After I paid, I was approached by the police car and asked who the car belonged to as it's registered to a female. Told them it was my sisters car and they did their checks. They came back and said I am not insured on her policy which, I am not. I have my own insurance policy on my own car and I was not aware that I was not allowed to drive other vehicles. I confirmed with the insurance company over the phone when I took the policy out that I'd be able to drive other vehicles and I was told I would be able to. My mistake but I never actually checked the policy documents as they were never posted to me but were all available online. Had a long conversation with the officers explaining the entire situation to them. They told me the car would be impounded but my sister was on her way home and asked the officers over the phone if she could come to collect the car to avoid it being impounded. They were very reluctant at first but eventually had another call to attend to so left me there with the car to wait for my sister - then told me they'd check that I didn't end up driving it again lol.

I know I probably don't have much luck and my only option would be to take the points but since I already have 9 points this will mean an automatic totting up ban. Would it be worth going to court (perhaps with a motoring solicitor) to argue the case that I was under the impression that I was insured or perhaps ask for a lesser ban like 2 weeks rather than the 6 months.

I'm responsible for taking my mother to her hospital appointments since she's of elderly age and not in the greatest of conditions so it would be a major inconvenience to our lives as I'd have to accompany her by public transport or pay for a cab to take her there and back a few times a week.

Input would be greatly appreciated.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
- Yes

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 09 Jun 2018 17:44:27 +0000

This post has been edited by coke_zero: Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 17:55
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post Sat, 9 Jun 2018 - 17:44
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dacouc
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 17:20
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QUOTE (panther12 @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 18:15) *
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 17:57) *
QUOTE (panther12 @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 16:42) *
Yes it's fine for those who have quick access to 20k should need be in the event of a 3rd party claim.

Huh? The excess isn't due for 3rd party claims. only self claims.

The excess is payable on any kind of claim whether you're claiming for own damage or a 3rd party claim. It's "all sections excess". In the event of a succesful 3rd party claim, the insurer pays them out and recovers the excess amount from you. That's what a lot of people who take out this kind of policy don't realise the implications and find themselves straddled with thousands of debt.


Made worse by them targeting the high risk / distressed market

I would be surprised if XS Direct even offer Driving Other Cars for any of their customers
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panther12
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 17:41
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QUOTE (dacouc @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 18:20) *
QUOTE (panther12 @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 18:15) *
QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 17:57) *
QUOTE (panther12 @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 16:42) *
Yes it's fine for those who have quick access to 20k should need be in the event of a 3rd party claim.

Huh? The excess isn't due for 3rd party claims. only self claims.

The excess is payable on any kind of claim whether you're claiming for own damage or a 3rd party claim. It's "all sections excess". In the event of a succesful 3rd party claim, the insurer pays them out and recovers the excess amount from you. That's what a lot of people who take out this kind of policy don't realise the implications and find themselves straddled with thousands of debt.


Made worse by them targeting the high risk / distressed market

I would be surprised if XS Direct even offer Driving Other Cars for any of their customers

I read their policy wording and they don't cover DOV. TBH I'm surprised they're allowed to operate in this way but they know how to cover their arses. If there's a dispute regarding who's at fault in an accident, they also tend to side with the 3rd party as it saves them time & money investigating in the knowledge they will recoup it back from the ridiculous excess imposed.
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BaggieBoy
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 18:12
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I'd never heard of that type of excess, I must have lived a sheltered life...
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coke_zero
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 21:10
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Yeah the excess situation is very stupid. But due to the car I have (stupid of me I know), and my 9 points, this was the only reasonable option without having to sell the car. The next best quote I got was in the £5k range. It hardly gets driven anyway and have not had to make a claim in the past 3 years (touch wood).

By the way, the insurance company has not yet gotten back to me or even acknowledged my request. I will try to delay the court proceedings as much as possible. Would it be a wise option to plead not guilty come close to the 21 day deadline? Or will it make zero difference if I do it now.

This post has been edited by coke_zero: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 21:11
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southpaw82
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 21:31
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What do you want to plead not guilty for?


--------------------


Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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panther12
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 11:52
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If the initial call recording exists I'd say you definitely need it and might need getting the ombudsman involved if they don't play ball. Others are more knowledgeable regarding the legal side of things but I would have thought, if you can show that you unintentially committed the offence because you were mislead by the insurance co, it doesn't alter the fact that you're guilty (as insurance is an absolute offence - meaning you're either insured or your not with no middle ground) it may be, depending on the sales call, that you can put forward a "special reasons" case not to endorse licence.
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flexeh
post Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 12:35
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This post made me double check with my insurance company over the DOV, as they sent my renewal, as i would normally "Assume" everything will remain the same apart from the NCD.
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TheDisapprovingB...
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:24
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QUOTE (panther12 @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 12:52) *
If the initial call recording exists I'd say you definitely need it and might need getting the ombudsman involved if they don't play ball. Others are more knowledgeable regarding the legal side of things but I would have thought, if you can show that you unintentially committed the offence because you were mislead by the insurance co, it doesn't alter the fact that you're guilty (as insurance is an absolute offence - meaning you're either insured or your not with no middle ground) it may be, depending on the sales call, that you can put forward a "special reasons" case not to endorse licence.


Not quite - as you say, it's an absolute offence so if you're guilty, it's a minimum 6 points and £300 fine. No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

What the original recording can do is give you ammunition to complain to the ombudsman. They can find that you were misled by the call, and require the insurer to provide the cover retrospectively - in other words, they can change the policy so that you WERE insured at the time, so that you're legitimately not guilty of the offence.
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Jlc
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:31
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QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:24) *
No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

SRNTE as mentioned, perhaps? (Requires a guilty plea mind)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 15:31


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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panther12
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 17:30
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:31) *
QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:24) *
No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

SRNTE as mentioned, perhaps? (Requires a guilty plea mind)

Yes that's my understanding of how it works. It can't form part of a defence but in the event of a guilty plea can be used to put forward SPRNE. I think your only hope of this is the fact that you didn't purchase direct from XS but via an agent. XS would have made sure the full terms were explained in the phone recording as they get a lot of complaints so make sure they've covered themselves. An agent may not have been so thorough.
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Logician
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 18:24
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:31) *
QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:24) *
No way out of that IF you were uninsured.
SRNTE as mentioned, perhaps? (Requires a guilty plea mind)


I do not think that a guilty plea as such is required, simply a finding of guilt. I do not believe there is any bar to a defendant found guilty of an offence to which he has pleaded not guilty, then asking the court to consider special reasons, or indeed the court considering special reasons on its own initiative.



--------------------



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Jlc
post Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 18:45
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True, but for an absolute offence I can only suggest a guilty plea if insurance was not in place.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Wed, 20 Jun 2018 - 12:42
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QUOTE (TheDisapprovingBrit @ Tue, 19 Jun 2018 - 16:24) *
QUOTE (panther12 @ Mon, 18 Jun 2018 - 12:52) *
If the initial call recording exists I'd say you definitely need it and might need getting the ombudsman involved if they don't play ball. Others are more knowledgeable regarding the legal side of things but I would have thought, if you can show that you unintentially committed the offence because you were mislead by the insurance co, it doesn't alter the fact that you're guilty (as insurance is an absolute offence - meaning you're either insured or your not with no middle ground) it may be, depending on the sales call, that you can put forward a "special reasons" case not to endorse licence.


Not quite - as you say, it's an absolute offence so if you're guilty, it's a minimum 6 points and £300 fine. No way out of that IF you were uninsured.

The problem here is, whether the OP is deemed to have had insurance or not is a matter for the ombudsman. Until we know whether insurance was in force or not (according to the ombudsman), it's impossible to say much else.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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