Clamping at Railway stations, A train company has started blaming via Indigo. |
Clamping at Railway stations, A train company has started blaming via Indigo. |
Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 11:50
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 431 Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Member No.: 45,808 |
The following was posted on Facebook:
"My local train station has now started enforce clamping in the carpark, which i thought was illegal from 2012. I have told there is railway bylaw which can they get round this, is there any way how to trump the bylaw?" The railway company is Govia-Thameslink and the PPC involved is Indigo. I haven't come across this before so two questions: 1. Anyone else seen it? 2. Is it in fact legal under some by-law or other? |
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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 11:50
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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 11:52
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
No, it is not legal
POFA2012 banned it As the byelaws were written before the POFA, they lack the required authorioty to override |
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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 11:53
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 431 Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Member No.: 45,808 |
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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 12:14
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,265 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I'd disagree with Nos slightly here, railway byelaws create the "lawful authority" (PoFA 2012 54(1) in my opinion to clamp
QUOTE Without prejudice to Byelaw 14(4)(i), any motor vehicle, bicycle or other conveyance used, left or placed in breach of Byelaw 14(1) to 14(3) may be clamped, removed, and stored, by or under the direction of an Operator or authorised person. HOWEVER to also quote the byelaws QUOTE The power of clamping and removal provided in Byelaw 14(4)(ii) above shall not be exercisable in any area where passenger parking is permitted unless there is on display in that area a notice advising that any vehicle parked contrary to these Byelaws may be clamped and/or removed by an Operator or an authorised person. Full byelaws https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/media/...way-byelaws.pdf -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 12:28
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
I wholehertedly disagree
1) Only a Court can determine there IS a breach of the byelaw, NOT the operator or any Authorised person. As such only AFTER a mag has determined there is a breach, can a clamp be placed. 2) In order for a private company to place a clamp, they have to be AUthorised. The SIA scheme for authorising clamping has ceased. 3) It lacks any enabling as per the TMA2004 to actually define the terms In short, if youre clamped, sue them for breach of POFA2012. |
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Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 17:12
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,265 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
So why would you argue that the byelaws which clearly state that clamping can be carried out, do not constitute lawful authority, you seem to have not covered that at all.
You’ve made lots of assertions but not covered that incredibly relevant point. -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 09:47
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 21 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,563 |
Byelaws themselves do not provide authority to create new laws. All Byelaw regulations must be backed up by real legislation which has been passed and approved by Parliament. In the case of Railway Byelaws the enabling legislation is Transport Act 2000 (TA2000). This act says nothing about allowing clamping at station car parks - so it does not provide the "specific lawful authority to clamp" which has been a legal requirement since POFA came into force on 1 October 2012.
When the Railway Byelaws were written in 2005 they didn't need to worry about "specific lawful authority", because clamping was already legal due to the common law in force at that time. POFA changed all that, but the TA2000 was never updated in light of the new legislative regime. Whoops! This post has been edited by Gary Bloke: Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 09:48 |
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Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 10:05
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
You havent addressed that only an actual breach can result in a clamping, and only a Court can determine there HAS been a breach, not that there is a suspected or alleged breach.
So theyc annot clamp until there has been a court case. |
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Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 10:30
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 488 Joined: 21 Aug 2016 Member No.: 86,563 |
I agree that what you say is the implication of the wording on the signage.
But do you agree that clamping is, in any case, illegal? |
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Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 10:50
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Yes
There is a long dissection of the illegality of clamping on byelaws land elsewher. Its been done to death. |
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