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PCN: 50j - performing a prohibited turn
avp
post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 19:44
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Hi all,

Need some advice with a PCN I recently received from Hillingdon Council. It was for a prohibited left turn but the sign indicating this wasn't very clear.

I have attached a scan of the PCN and a street view photo of the sign. I know the PCN has been sent after 28 days so I'm writing to DVLA to find out when the LA requested my info and when it was sent to them, but do I have any other grounds for appeal regarding 1) the wording and validity of the PCN and 2) the sign itself?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

This post has been edited by avp: Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 19:48
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post Thu, 20 Dec 2018 - 19:44
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avp
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 07:50
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Thank you PASTMYBEST and cp8759 for your continued support. It's very much appreciated.

Just a point regarding the the inadequate signage. There is a somewhat confusing sing on Frithwood Avenue warning of the no left turn into Elgood Avenue but it's not very clear. Should I mention this in the appeal?



This post has been edited by avp: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 07:55
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 09:36
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perhaps we need to beef up the part about the TMO and not actually traveling SW to NE along Watford road

wait for CP

This post has been edited by PASTMYBEST: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 09:38


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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 13:48
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 09:36) *
perhaps we need to beef up the part about the TMO and not actually traveling SW to NE along Watford road

Well we know the TMO prohibits a vehicle “proceeding in a south westbound direction in Watford Road” from turning left into Elgood Avenue, and in the previous case the adjudicator was of the view that the appellant was simply crossing over from Frithwood Avenue to Elgood Avenue.

avp you need to show us the video so we can confirm how well this argument can be made in your case.

I also think there's something to be said about the advance warning sign, it could mean that if you proceed into Elgood Avenue, you won't be able to turn left at some point along Elgood Avenue itself. It's also interesting that there doesn't appear to be any additional authorisation from the SoS for this advisory sign.


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avp
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:23
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Thanks cp8759. Video uploaded here: PCN Video

This post has been edited by avp: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:23
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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:30
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QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:23) *
Thanks cp8759. Video uploaded here: PCN Video

Bump tomorrow and I'll draft something to cover the TMO wording.


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avp
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:34
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I will do, thanks again.

Just want to point out I received multiple PCN's over a week for the exact same contravention (new route, misinterpreted the sign on Frithwood Avenue). Can I lodge one appeal to cover all of them or do I need to submit them individually?
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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:39
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QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:34) *
I will do, thanks again.

Just want to point out I received multiple PCN's over a week for the exact same contravention (new route, misinterpreted the sign on Frithwood Avenue). Can I lodge one appeal to cover all of them or do I need to submit them individually?

You'll have to challenge them all individually. How many have you got Notices of Rejections for?


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avp
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:41
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:39) *
QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:34) *
I will do, thanks again.

Just want to point out I received multiple PCN's over a week for the exact same contravention (new route, misinterpreted the sign on Frithwood Avenue). Can I lodge one appeal to cover all of them or do I need to submit them individually?

You'll have to challenge them all individually. How many have you got Notices of Rejections for?

5 in total sad.gif

This post has been edited by avp: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:42
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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:48
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QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:41) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:39) *
QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:34) *
I will do, thanks again.

Just want to point out I received multiple PCN's over a week for the exact same contravention (new route, misinterpreted the sign on Frithwood Avenue). Can I lodge one appeal to cover all of them or do I need to submit them individually?

You'll have to challenge them all individually. How many have you got Notices of Rejections for?

5 in total sad.gif

Well this is new information, when were you planning on telling us?

List the dates of all the notices, and the dates of all the NoRs. Also post all the NoRs in full.

You will have to appeal all of them but then the tribunal will almost certainly direct that they all be dealt with as a single, consolidated appeal.


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avp
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:59
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:48) *
QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:41) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:39) *
QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:34) *
I will do, thanks again.

Just want to point out I received multiple PCN's over a week for the exact same contravention (new route, misinterpreted the sign on Frithwood Avenue). Can I lodge one appeal to cover all of them or do I need to submit them individually?

You'll have to challenge them all individually. How many have you got Notices of Rejections for?

5 in total sad.gif

Well this is new information, when were you planning on telling us?

List the dates of all the notices, and the dates of all the NoRs. Also post all the NoRs in full.

You will have to appeal all of them but then the tribunal will almost certainly direct that they all be dealt with as a single, consolidated appeal.

Apologies for not mentioning it sooner but I assumed it wouldn't make a difference to the appeal process until now.

The notice dates are 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 15th October. The rejection dates are all the same - 7th Jan. The content of each rejection is identical in all of them apart from the obvious like dates and CCTV images.

This post has been edited by avp: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:59
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cp8759
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 22:02
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QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:59) *
Apologies for not mentioning it sooner but I assumed it wouldn't make a difference to the appeal process until now.

The notice dates are 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 15th October. The rejection dates are all the same - 7th Jan. The content of each rejection is identical in all of them apart from the obvious like dates and CCTV images.

That makes things easier, as we can use the same appeal text for all of them. Bump tomorrow afternoon and I'll put something together.


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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 22:31
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 22:02) *
QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:59) *
Apologies for not mentioning it sooner but I assumed it wouldn't make a difference to the appeal process until now.

The notice dates are 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 15th October. The rejection dates are all the same - 7th Jan. The content of each rejection is identical in all of them apart from the obvious like dates and CCTV images.

That makes things easier, as we can use the same appeal text for all of them. Bump tomorrow afternoon and I'll put something together.


not forgetting continuing contravention for 2.3.4.and 5


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avp
post Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 14:19
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 22:02) *
QUOTE (avp @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 21:59) *
Apologies for not mentioning it sooner but I assumed it wouldn't make a difference to the appeal process until now.

The notice dates are 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th and 15th October. The rejection dates are all the same - 7th Jan. The content of each rejection is identical in all of them apart from the obvious like dates and CCTV images.

That makes things easier, as we can use the same appeal text for all of them. Bump tomorrow afternoon and I'll put something together.

Afternoon bump

This post has been edited by avp: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 14:19
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avp
post Fri, 25 Jan 2019 - 13:34
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Bump for cp8759
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cp8759
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 00:22
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I've made a few adjustments for the TMO wording and continuous contravention in post 16. Remember you need to appeal all the Notices of Rejection.


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avp
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 10:31
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 00:22) *
I've made a few adjustments for the TMO wording and continuous contravention in post 16. Remember you need to appeal all the Notices of Rejection.

Thank you, much appreciated. I'm going to submit the appeals today and report back once I've heard from them.
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cp8759
post Sat, 26 Jan 2019 - 15:48
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The council will upload a case summary a few days before the tribunal decision is due, post it on here when you receive it.


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Mr Chilled Drive...
post Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 15:30
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Thank you AVP for posting this and to the respondents who helped so much.

I have an identical case (3 in fact, had no idea the restriction was in place) and think I have all that I need to appeal. So it was just to add a word of appreciation for the heavy lifting already done!
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avp
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 08:20
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Just wanted to come back and provide an update. The appeals were decided in my favour and all the PCN's were cancelled.

A massive thank you to everyone who helped in this thread, especially cp8759. Your help and and guidance is much appreciated.

Mr Chilled Driver - Good luck with your appeal!
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cp8759
post Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 20:36
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QUOTE (avp @ Thu, 7 Mar 2019 - 08:20) *
Just wanted to come back and provide an update. The appeals were decided in my favour and all the PCN's were cancelled.

A massive thank you to everyone who helped in this thread, especially cp8759. Your help and and guidance is much appreciated.

Mr Chilled Driver - Good luck with your appeal!

can you give us the case reference please? It can be used to help others.


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