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Caught on single yellow line as parking time expired
chuck990
post Tue, 6 Feb 2018 - 20:29
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Hi,

Mum fell foul of a quite predatory ticket warden over the weekend. She was parked on a yellow line that allowed parking until 4 and came back to the car at about 9 minutes past only to find a ticket that had been issued at 16:06/16:07.

I've attached the street signage and the PCN below; dont think there's an awful lot to be argued - especially having read that grace periods dont have to apply to single yellow lines.

Can anyone give any saving grace perhaps? Or is this one of those time to just suck it up?





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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:48
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QUOTE (chuck990 @ Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 15:26) *
Hi all,

Just reading through the "The Secretary of State's Statutory Guidance to Local Authorities on the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions".

Can anyone clarify; the section on grace periods is as follows:

QUOTE
Grace periods
8.13 Parking policy should be designed to enable people to access the community and carry on their business as easily as possible. Whilst it is important to nundertake enforcement, to prevent abuse of parking facilities to the detriment of the majority, enforcement should be sensitive, fair and proportionate. This would not be the case if a driver received a penalty charge notice (PCN) for returning to their vehicle only moments after the expiry of a period of permitted parking. Therefore, the law requires that a penalty charge must not be issued to a vehicle which has stayed parked in a parking place on a road or in a local authority's car park beyond the permitted parking period for a period of time not exceeding 10 minutes. The grace period applies to on-street and off-street parking places provided under traffic orders, whether the period of parking is paid for or free. Any penalty charge during the 10-minute grace period would be illegal, unless the vehicle itself is parked unlawfully (e.g. where the motorist has not paid any required parking fee or displayed a parking ticket where required).

8.14
It is important that all civil enforcement officers understand that grace periods only apply to designated parking places where a person is permitted to park. A road with a restriction (e.g. single yellow line) or prohibition (e.g. double yellow line) is not a 'designated' parking place either during - or outside of - the period of the restriction or prohibition.


Because the spot in question has white markings, "P" signs and designated parking hours, it is indeed a "designated" parking place correct? Therefore the yellow line rule/exemption as above does not apply


carefully read post 4. That is an adjudicators finding as to the interpretation of the law


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DancingDad
post Fri, 16 Mar 2018 - 16:34
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Yellow lines on their own cannot ever be a designated parking place, they are a No Waiting restriction.
But a parking bay is almost invariably a designated parking place.
The legislation makes no mention of 10 minute rule on any sort of waiting restriction but it does relate directly to designated parking bays.
Ergo, if parked lawfully in a parking bay, that there are yellow lines is irrelevant as far as the 10 minute rule is concerned.

Merton ought to check their policy against the actual legislation and not rely on guidance that may be and is worded loosely.
All the guidance means is that if someone is parked on a yellow line with no parking bays, there is no ten minute rule.
It mentions nothing about combinations of designated parking bays and yellow lines.

It certainly does not trump legislation and nor does their parking policy.
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chuck990
post Tue, 17 Apr 2018 - 12:46
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Hi,

NTO has finally arrived; please see below. (NB, awaiting images without the cropping on pages 2+3)
Will start formulating an appeal in the next couple of days, pretty much along the lines of what's already been discussed. If anyone can see any further issues with the NTO that would be very helpful.



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chuck990
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 21:51
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Please let me know if I go in too hard at the beginning, or if I have omitted anything of importance:

QUOTE
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to appeal PCN XX on behalf of my mother XX who is the registered keeper, and driver of the VRM XX.
I find myself largely frustrated in having to send this message, having already clearly laid out to you in a preliminary 'unofficial' appeal why this PCN is invalid and requires immediate revocation. As I pointed out in an email discussion with your “Parking services” department, this PCN was not legally issued, and is completely invalid.

I will re-state my stance below, but bearing in mind this repeated information, I will treat any action other than the immediate cancellation of this PCN as vexatious, and should it proceed to a tribunal I will also be seeking costs for the time incurred in explaining to you rules and regulations it is your duty to know.

The car was parked in contravention at 16:06 because the restriction came into effect at 1600 hrs. Prior to this, the car was permitted to be parked in the parking place. Indeed in a message from you, it is conceded that the car was parked in a designated place:
"The parking place in which the vehicle was parked in this case is designated for use between 10am and 4pm, Monday to Saturday." (emphasis mine)
In these circumstances, the authority are barred by law from issuing a PCN until a period of 10 minutes has elapsed, however the CEO issued it prematurely at 16:07.
If the authority are in any doubt, then I refer them to regulation 4 of the General Regulations, the relevant provisions of which I have copied below:

(3) No penalty charge is payable for the contravention where the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not exceeding 10 minutes.
(4) In this regulation—
(a)“designated parking place” means a parking place established by virtue of an order made under section 1, 6, 9, 32(1)(b), 35 or 45 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984(2);
(b)“permitted parking period” means—
(i)a period of parking that has been paid for as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place;[i] or
(ii)a period of parking for which no charge is payable as authorised by or under any order made relating to the designated parking place.


In your previous emails you have pointed to vaguely worded guidelines which talk about yellow lines, but the law above, which takes precedent, makes no such mention. Yellow lines on their own are not a parking place, they are a ‘No Waiting restriction’. A marked parking bay is a designated parking place, you have already referred to it as such. The legislation makes no mention of 10 minute rule, or lack thereof on any sort of waiting restriction but it does relate directly to designated parking bays as in this case.
Ergo, if parked lawfully in a parking bay, which you agree to be true, that there are yellow lines is irrelevant as far as the 10 minute rule is concerned, and it is therefore in place.
I will quote again, a tribunal judgement of a near identical case, which shows that the PCN is invalid and will be cancelled:


2160156249

Decision date
29 Jul 2016
Adjudicator
Timothy Thorne
Previous decision
Appeal refused
Review decision
Appeal allowed
Direction
Review and appeal allowed
Reasons
This case comes before me as a review.

Having considered all the evidence I am satisfied that it is in the interests of justice for me to perform this review.

The evidence is clear that the applicant parked her vehicle in a parking bay which had a single yellow line running through it. The associated time plate indicated that at the time the vehicle was parked the yellow line was not operational but the bay was operating as a parking space that limited the amount of parking time to 10 minutes. The PCN was issued because the vehicle was parked in the bay for 12 minutes.

The PCN alleged that the vehicle was parked in a restricted street. It was not. it was parked in a parking bay that limited the amount of parking time to 10 minutes. The PCN is therefore invalid.

Moreover the decision to issue a PCN and pursue the penalty takes no account of the Deregulation Act 2015 which came into force in April 2015. The Enforcement Authority's own published policy is as follows:

"From 6 April 2015, the Council will be giving a 10 minute grace period to vehicles parked in dedicated parking bays, where a period of permitted parking ends and controls then come into force.

The general idea of this is that if a vehicle is parked legally in a designated parking bay when it is initially parked, then a 10 minute grace period should be given before a parking ticket is issued after it becomes illegally parked.
The Council has already started a 'common sense' approach to kerbside management through its innovative Traffic Marshals scheme.
The 10 minute grace period applies in parking bays in the following instances;
-at the start of controlled hours when the bay reverts from being uncontrolled to controlled-upon expiry of a paid for session during controlled hours-upon expiry of a permitted ‘free’ parking period during controlled hours (eg a maximum stay)"The Enforcement Authority has failed to follow its own guidance and the PCN should not have been issued.


I therefore conclude that the review (and appeal) must be allowed.

"
Please confirm post haste that the PCN has been revoked
Regards
XX
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hcandersen
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 14:39
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OP, you cannot presume the right to make reps on behalf of the recipient of the NTO, you must obtain written authorisation from them to act on their behalf in this matter.

As regards the 10-minute rule, the preconditions are that:
1. The location is a designated parking place;
2. The contravention relates to one of those specified in paras (a) to © of para. (1);
3. The time of contravention does not exceed 10 minutes from when permitted parking ended.

1. Yes.(but see below);
2. Yes, IMO this is the key part (my emphasis!). The now renumbered para. 4(1)(b) states (b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London'
3. Yes.

Not quite Britain's Got Talent 4 yeses, but all that's needed.

The guidance is incorrect IMO.
It is para. (1) which holds the key. Para. (1) of what?
Of the amended regulation 4.

What does it provide?

Imposition of penalty charges

4. Subject to the provisions of these Regulations a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle where there has been committed in relation to that vehicle—

(a)a parking contravention within paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 to the 2004 Act (contraventions relating to parking places in Greater London);
(b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London; or
©a parking contravention within paragraph 4 of that Schedule (parking contraventions outside Greater London) in a civil enforcement area outside Greater London.

NB. IMO if parliament had meant to EXCLUDE parking contraventions other than those relating to parking places then the amendment regs would have provided for 'contravention mentioned in subparagraphs (a) and ©', but they didn't. It was open to them, but they didn't. IMO, it is not open to the SoS or adjudicators to exclude contraventions in (b) from the scope of the 10-minute period.

Maybe I've misread it?

edit and 4(1)© isn't limited to parking place-related contraventions either!

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 15:25
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chuck990
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 16:13
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Thanks for the reply, I can confirm I do have full consent to appeal this on behalf of the owner/keeper/driver at the time (all one and the same).

Is the numbering in my draft response incorrect? You point to an amended regulation 4? Do you perhaps have a link to this?

My main concern at the moment is whether or not the opening section of my draft is too hostile and will be unhelpful. It has already been suggested in this thread (@Mad Mick V) that their pursuit of this PCN is "vexatious and wholly unreasonable", so hopefully my response is not generally considered unreasonable?
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 16:34
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QUOTE (chuck990 @ Thu, 19 Apr 2018 - 17:13) *
Thanks for the reply, I can confirm I do have full consent to appeal this on behalf of the owner/keeper/driver at the time (all one and the same).

Is the numbering in my draft response incorrect? You point to an amended regulation 4? Do you perhaps have a link to this?

My main concern at the moment is whether or not the opening section of my draft is too hostile and will be unhelpful. It has already been suggested in this thread (@Mad Mick V) that their pursuit of this PCN is "vexatious and wholly unreasonable", so hopefully my response is not generally considered unreasonable?


Personally I would tone it right down. no need to risk being on the wrong side of an adjudicator, if it gets there


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hcandersen
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 11:12
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Agreed.

I just laid out the long version which could be shortened dramatically.

OP, you must provide your authority to make reps, stating that you have permission is not sufficient.

Don't quote the regs at this length, it makes it a difficult read.

And of course at this stage you need to refer to the fact that the contravention falls within the group of contraventions specified in para. 3 of Part 1 to Schedule 7 of the TMA which falls within the scope of the 10-minute prohibition in reg. 4(2) by virtue of being a contravention specified in reg. 4(1)(b).

In considering these representations, the authority must first review the superior legal context i.e. the regulations, and may not rely upon policies which, as in this case, have no legal standing.

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chuck990
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 16:30
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Thanks for the guidance, I have toned it down considerably, and also used hcandersen's references to the legislation, without quoting it fully:

QUOTE
Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to appeal PCN XX on behalf of my mother XX who is the registered keeper, and driver of the VRM XX.
I have attached a written affidavit confirming my authority to handle this matter.

I have already discussed this matter with your “Parking Services” department via email, but I will re-state the facts for you here:

The car was parked in contravention at 16:06 because the restriction came into effect at 1600 hrs. Prior to this, the car was permitted to be parked in the parking place. Indeed in a message from you, it is conceded that the car was parked in a designated place:
"The parking place in which the vehicle was parked in this case is designated for use between 10am and 4pm, Monday to Saturday." (emphasis mine).

This contravention falls within the group of contraventions specified in para. 3 of Part 1 to Schedule 7 of the TMA (Traffic Management Act) which falls within the scope of the 10-minute prohibition in reg. 4(2) by virtue of being a contravention specified in reg. 4(1)(b).

In your previous emails you have pointed to vaguely worded guidelines which talk about yellow lines, but the laws which take precedent make no such mention. Yellow lines on their own are indeed not a parking place, they are a ‘No Waiting restriction’. A marked parking bay however is a designated parking place, you have already referred to it as such. The legislation makes no mention of 10 minute rule, or lack thereof on any sort of waiting restriction but it does relate directly to designated parking bays as in this case.
Ergo, if initially parked lawfully in a parking bay, which you agree to be true, that there are yellow lines is irrelevant as far as the 10 minute rule is concerned, and it is therefore in place.
I again point you to case 2160156249, a tribunal judgement of a near identical case, which shows that the PCN is invalid and will be cancelled.

Please confirm post haste that the PCN has been revoked
Regards
XX


(obviously I will also obtain and attach the note from mum - thanks for the heads up on that one)
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DancingDad
post Fri, 20 Apr 2018 - 19:08
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Far and away better.
I started reading last night and got bogged down, a sure indication that council muppets will go all glassy eyed and reject.

This reads far better.

The only thing I would add is a leading paragraph/heading.

"The PCN was served when the 10 minute grace period applied and therefore must be cancelled. Details below"
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chuck990
post Sat, 21 Apr 2018 - 10:55
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I now have a photo/scan of a letter of consent - if appealing online this should be adequate hopefully?

With DancingDad's suggested edit:

QUOTE
Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing to appeal PCN XX on behalf of my mother XX who is the registered keeper, and driver of the VRM XX.
I have attached a written affidavit confirming my authority to handle this matter.

This PCN is invalid, because it was served while a 10 minute grace period applied.

I have already discussed this matter with your “Parking Services” department via email, but I will re-state the facts for you here:

The car was parked in contravention at 16:06 because the restriction came into effect at 1600 hrs. Prior to this, the car was permitted to be parked in the parking place. Indeed in a message from you, it is conceded that the car was parked in a designated place:
"The parking place in which the vehicle was parked in this case is designated for use between 10am and 4pm, Monday to Saturday." (emphasis mine).

This contravention falls within the group of contraventions specified in para. 3 of Part 1 to Schedule 7 of the TMA (Traffic Management Act) which falls within the scope of the 10-minute prohibition in reg. 4(2) by virtue of being a contravention specified in reg. 4(1)(b).

In your previous emails you have pointed to vaguely worded guidelines which talk about yellow lines, but the laws which take precedent make no such mention. Yellow lines on their own are indeed not a parking place, they are a ‘No Waiting restriction’. A marked parking bay however is a designated parking place, you have already referred to it as such. The legislation makes no mention of 10 minute rule, or lack thereof on any sort of waiting restriction but it does relate directly to designated parking bays as in this case.
Ergo, if initially parked lawfully in a parking bay, which you agree to be true, that there are yellow lines is irrelevant as far as the 10 minute rule is concerned, and it is therefore in place.
I again point you to case 2160156249, a tribunal judgement of a near identical case, which shows that the PCN is invalid and will be cancelled.

Please confirm post haste that the PCN has been revoked.
Regards
XX


Is this ready to go? I know I gain nothing by appealing early, but my mother is anxious and tempted to pay (funny, it's almost as if that's the aim of the game) and it would be a weight of my mind to know it had been dealt with.
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chuck990
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 12:39
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Appeal rejected:

QUOTE
Thank you for writing to us.
We have carefully considered what you say but we have decided not to cancel
your Penalty Charge Notice (PCN).

You were parked where there are yellow stripes on the kerb and white 'No loading'
signs. The kerb stripes mean you are not allowed to park – even to load or unload
– at certain times. A double kerb stripe means the rule applies 24 hours a day. A
single kerb stripe, as in your case, means the rule applies some of the time (the
sign shows the times). If no days are shown on the sign, the rule applies seven
days a week. You were given a Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) for parking at a time
when the rule applies. The purpose of this rule is to improve traffic flow and safety
at busy times.
The PCN was issued because your vehicle was parked in contravention of a
loading restriction. At this location waiting or loading/unloading is prohibited
between 7.00am-10.00am and 4.00pm-7.00pm, Monday to Saturday. The purpose
of the loading ban is to keep the road clear during the rush hours to ensure the free
flow of traffic.
When a loading ban is in force motorists are only permitted to stop briefly to allow
passengers to enter or alight the vehicle. Waiting (parking) for any period is not
permitted, nor is stopping to load or unload the vehicle. The restrictions are
indicated by a single yellow line at the edge of the carriageway, yellow markings on
the kerb, and signs at the roadside.

The amended regulation 4 of the Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions
(England) General Regulations 2007 states, “no penalty charge is payable where
the vehicle has been left beyond the permitted parking period for a period not
exceeding 10 minutes”.
In this case, ‘Permitted parking period’ means “a period of parking for which no
charge is payable as authorised by or under any order made relating to the
designated parking place.”
The Traffic Management Order for the designated parking place (copy enclosed) {{NOTE FROM ME, this is not enclosed...}}
specifies that the permitted hours for these bays are 10.00am – 4.00pm, Monday
to Saturday. The ‘permitted parking period’ for the purposes of Regulation 4
therefore ends at 4pm as parking after 4pm is not authorised by the order relating
to the designated parking place. The waiting/loading restriction for which the PCN
was issued is governed by a separate order, also enclosed {{No it's not...}}. The grace period does
not apply to waiting/loading restrictions that come into force after a period of
permitted parking.
Finally, the previous appeal that you cited is not relevant here as in that case the
waiting restriction was not in force when the PCN was issued, as clearly stated in
the review adjudicator’s reasons. The PCN was issued at 16:04 at a location where
parking is permitted until 16:30 so it was issued under the wrong contravention
code, rendering the notice invalid.
Having considered all the points raised, I am satisfied that the PCN has been
issued correctly and that there are no grounds on which to cancel the charge.


My initial thoughts:

1. They have clearly looked at a different appeal case than the one typed out in full earlier in this thread. Perhaps I have used the wrong number, will check.
2. They point twice to attached documents they have not attached


EDIT: I might be wrong in point 1 above, however their reading of the decision appears to be different to mine;

"The general idea of this is that if a vehicle is parked legally in a designated parking bay when it is initially parked, then a 10 minute grace period should be given before a parking ticket is issued after it becomes illegally parked.

The Council has already started a 'common sense' approach to kerbside management through its innovative Traffic Marshals scheme.

The 10 minute grace period applies in parking bays in the following instances;

-at the start of controlled hours when the bay reverts from being uncontrolled to controlled

-upon expiry of a paid for session during controlled hours-upon expiry of a permitted ‘free’ parking period during controlled hours (eg a maximum stay)"
The Enforcement Authority has failed to follow its own guidance and the PCN should not have been issued.
I therefore conclude that the review (and appeal) must be allowed."


This post has been edited by chuck990: Wed, 9 May 2018 - 12:51
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 13:42
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please post all of the document, not a transcript.


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chuck990
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 14:06
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 9 May 2018 - 14:42) *
please post all of the document, not a transcript.








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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 14:36
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They are wrong. they even say they are they just don't know it.

The permitted parking period ends at 4 so at 4 or 3.59.59 you were in a permitted parking place Ergo no PCN can be issued for 10 minutes beyond that time.

In any sort of bay with a time restriction the permitted period ends


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DancingDad
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 20:07
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What PMB says.
They try very hard to convince but end of the day, the place is a permitted parking area, under any interpretation, right up to 4pm.
No PCN can be issued until 10 minutes have expired.
Simples.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 11:55
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OP, you must get on to them and ask for the missing enclosures. The key one is the TMO.

IMO, the tests in this respect are:
Is the contravention within the specified scope?
Was it a designated parking place at the time of the contravention?
Was it parked beyond the permitted parking period?

Yes; don't know, but probably, the TMO should tell us; yes.

Note: the regs are crystal clear in that as regards London the 10-minute bar applies to parking contraventions in parking places and parking contraventions not in parking places. Their statement is to the contrary to the regs and at appeal you would draw attention to their 'error'.

The scope is:
Imposition of penalty charges

4. Subject to the provisions of these Regulations a penalty charge is payable with respect to a vehicle where there has been committed in relation to that vehicle—

(a)a parking contravention within paragraph 2 of Schedule 7 to the 2004 Act (contraventions relating to parking places in Greater London);
(b)a parking contravention within paragraph 3 of that Schedule (other parking contraventions in Greater London) in a civil enforcement area in Greater London; or
©a parking contravention within paragraph 4 of that Schedule (parking contraventions outside Greater London) in a civil enforcement area outside Greater London.


Paragraph 3(2)(b) of Schecule 7 applies:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/18/schedule/7

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Thu, 10 May 2018 - 12:06
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chuck990
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 17:22
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Thanks guys. The photocopies of the missing documents have arrived by a separate email (seem's a bit odd?):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0yAx5PLJb...d1VDVyaG9J/view


Is it at all worth pointing out they're wrong one more time, or do I simply apply to the tribunal now?

When I apply can I claim their approach to be vexatious? The predatory nature of arriving just as the time expires, and then continued wilful misinterpretation/misrepresentation of the rules has wasted me significant time and effort

This post has been edited by chuck990: Thu, 10 May 2018 - 17:44
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cp8759
post Thu, 10 May 2018 - 20:02
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QUOTE (chuck990 @ Thu, 10 May 2018 - 18:22) *
Is it at all worth pointing out they're wrong one more time, or do I simply apply to the tribunal now?

I would just appeal to the tribunal, this will cost them £27.02 in tribunal fees if you do and they've brought it on themselves.


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chuck990
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:41
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Hi all,

I'm just starting the appeal through the tribunal.

Do I enter my details or those of my mother? There is a question at the end of the 'personal details' section asking "Do you have a legal representative who will conduct the appeal on your behalf?", I'm presuming i enter her details, and then mine as the representative?
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