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Britannia Parking Charge Notice - Waitrose, Welwyn Garden City
McArt
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:47
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Hi,

I have received a Parking Charge Notice from Britannia Parking, the date of contravention was 20 December 2018 and the date of the notice was 10 January 2019.

I sent the following appeal:

I am the keeper of vehicle xxxx xxx and have received your parking charge notice. Your notice is dated more than 14 days after the alleged breach. It cannot, therefore, be delivered within the relevant period of 14 days as required by Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Because of this failure, and others, I, as the keeper, cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver. There is no legal requirement for me to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.
I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken against me and my details have been removed from your files.

Is this the correct way to proceed. Many thanks for any replies.
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post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:47
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Jlc
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:50
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It appear so if your DVLA records were correct.

Does the notice claim any such keeper liability? (Or simply refer to the driver?)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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McArt
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 16:54
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It refers to the driver. I thought that if I do not have to name the driver they cannot come after the keeper as they have failed to comply with POFA, is this correct?
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bearclaw
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 17:03
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Thats correct but you dont expect the appeal to win... They just want your money.

If it was after 14 days late though that appeal is exactly the one to send and theres nothing really to do now except wait for them to send the next letter...
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cabbyman
post Mon, 21 Jan 2019 - 20:03
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You have done precisely the right thing. They will refuse the appeal but should include a POPLA code where you hit them hard with all the PoFA failures.

Please post a copy of the PCN, both sides, redacted of identifying detail.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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McArt
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 08:56
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Thanks for the replies, here is the PCN
Attached Image

Attached thumbnail(s)
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ostell
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 09:56
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Not only is it late but there a several other POFA failures.
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McArt
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 12:41
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Thanks, what are the other failures please?
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Jlc
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 13:33
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QUOTE (McArt @ Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 12:41) *
Thanks, what are the other failures please?

Tick them off here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 14:12
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Indeed, OP you MUST do your own work on this - POFA2012 schedule 4 para 9 is easy to read and understand
Be strict
Period of PARKING measn jsut that; the time the vehicle was actually parked.
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McArt
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 16:09
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Thanks everyone, I have read through and I find as follows:

Which car the ticket relates to - COMPLIED

What land the car was parked on - COMPLIED

The period the car was parked - entry and exit times, is this sufficient?

Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full - I think complied (no mention that it has not been paid in full)

State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when - there was no notice to driver and it is not mentioned in the PCN

Specify the outstanding amount of the parking charge and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and of the dispute resolution arrangements - NOT COMPLIED

Invite the registered keeper to pay the outstanding parking charge or, if he was not the driver, to provide the name and address of the driver and to pass a copy of the notice on to that driver - did not invite keeper - NOT COMPLIED

Identify the “creditor” who is legally entitled to recover the parking charge - COMPLIED

Warn the keeper that if the parking charges remains outstanding after 28 days and the name and address of the driver has not been given, or otherwise known to the person entitled to the parking charge, that “creditor” will be entitled to recover the parking charge from the registered keeper. - NOT COMPLIED

Details of the discount for payment within 14 days, The Discount should be at least 40% of the full charge under the BPA Code of Practice (applies to BPA Members only) - COMPLIED

Date of the notice - COMPLIED

(Where no notice to driver has been served (e.g ANPR is used)) Not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked - NOT COMPLIED


I am only completely sure of a couple of these (notice arrived after 14 days and that I am liable after 28 days), should I put in as many of these as possible in the inevitable POPLA appeal or only those I am sure of?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 16:17
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I said the period of parking must be exactly that - the time the vehicle was parked. By definition moving in front of a camera is NOT parking!

Are you sure they dont mention how much parking charge (the amount due THEM, not any amount payable to park in the firest place) is outstanding? They all comply on this part!

You put all failures in, as a bullet list, referencing the POFA para you got them from
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McArt
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 16:39
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Only that they did not mention dispute resolution arrangements unless that is covered by the part about the POPLA appeals info.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 16:40
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Erm, yes. POPLA is the ADR.
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McArt
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 16:42
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I see what you mean about period of parking, I guess with an ANPR system on entry and exit they could never know the actual period of parking.

Sorry, yes of course re: POPLA
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 08:01
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Nope, and while some dont think it is substantive enough a reason to say the NtK does not comply, I am all for going by the strict requirement that a period where the car is parked is a requirement of POFA, and if they CHOOSE a mechanism that can NEVER generate this value, that is *their choice* and they should not be given a free pass because of it.
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McArt
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 16:11
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Hi,

Just thought I'd update the thread with the outcome, thanks for all the help, letter received:

Further to your appeal regarding the above Parking Charge Notice.
The appeal has been reviewed .The photographs and any evidence have all been taken into account.
The Parking Charge Notice was issued to your vehicle because you over stayed the maximum time
permitted for parking at this car park. The store operates as a 90 minute maximum stay car park.
We are members of the British Parking Association (BPA) and we follow their Approved Operator
Scheme, the BPA Code of Practice, at all times. Section 13 – Grace Periods, details that we must give
the driver a reasonable period of time to read the terms and conditions on the signage and to leave the
car park after the parking contract has expired. We have a 10 minute grace period at this car park.
After 90 minutes of parking, your 10 minute grace will commence, if the driver has not left the car park
by the time the 10 minute grace period has been reached, a Parking Charge Notice will be issued for
breaching the terms and conditions of the car park. Therefore we consider the Parking Charge Notice
to be valid and correctly issued.
However, this is your first Parking Charge Notice, therefore we are prepared to cancel the notice; with
the understanding that you will not continue to breach the terms and conditions; as you are now aware
of the maximum stay time permitted for this car park.
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cabbyman
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 17:32
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Nice one! You can ignore their veiled threat about future parking because, of course, you, as Registered Keeper will never park the car again! wink.gif


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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McArt
post Wed, 6 Feb 2019 - 22:09
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Indeed biggrin.gif
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