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Wolverhampton Bus Lane - Wrong Location?
peodude
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:10
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Colleague has received a bus lane ticket from Wolverhampton, but the location is wrong, It says Victoria Square when the road is actually Pipers Row. Victoria Square is a pedestrian area next to the road as seen below:



I have also attached the PCN but can't see any other errors on there.




Is the location a fatal error or is it close enough? It doesn't help that the route for Other Traffic is basically little more than an alley way.

GSV is https://goo.gl/maps/K7hV2f1RpmZc65ZZ6
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post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 11:10
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 12:08
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Wrong location is a valid argument in its own right. You can add that to this draft http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?s=&...t&p=1556922 just note that there's a typo in the case reference quoted, should be KU-00042-1810 not JU-00042-1810.

Write a draft covering all of the arguments, put is on here for review and we'll tidy it up for you.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 12:09


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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peodude
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:14
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Thanks cp.

Just for my notes i'll put this here - https://www.kentonline.co.uk/tunbridge-well...ne-fine-195514/ which deals with the may / will issue.

I've also found this https://www.wolverhampton.gov.uk/sites/defa...oria_Square.pdf which seems to contradict Google Maps.

Part 3 Reg 8 of The Bus Lane Contraventions doesn't even mention location being on the PCN for some reason https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/27...gulation/8/made



Dear City of Wolverhampton Council,

I make representations against PCN ____________ by means of a collateral challenge, under the ground that the penalty demanded exceeds the amount due in the circumstances of the case.

Firstly, the location on the PCN is wrong. There is no such road called Victoria Square, the road in question is called Pipers Row. Victoria Square is the pedestrian area to the side of Pipers Row.

There is also confirmation of this in the Express and Star on 19th Feb 20 https://www.expressandstar.com/news/transpo...meras-revealed/

Councillor Steve Evans, environment boss at Wolverhampton Council said: “Although there has been a bus gate in Pipers Row since 2015, it was suspended during the roadworks to avoid causing confusion. The bus gate was re-introduced last October, when the council issued warning notices for a month, to give motorists chance to get used to the return of the bus gate."

Secondly, the PCN is required to convey that:

the recipient may, by notice in writing to the authority, request them—
(i) to make available at an office of theirs specified by him, free of charge and at a time during normal office hours so specified, for viewing by him and by his representative (if any), the record of the contravention produced by the approved device pursuant to which the penalty charge was imposed; or
(ii) to provide him, free of charge, with such still images from that record as, in the authority’s opinion, establish the contravention.

The meaning above is not conveyed by the PCN.

Thirdly, the rules for service provided on page 2 are wrong, they are clearly taken from The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (England) General Regulations 2007 which have no relevance to bus lane contraventions. The rules for service in this contact are instead found in regulation 29 of The Bus Lane Contraventions (Penalty Charges, Adjudication and Enforcement) (England) Regulations 2005 which are different in a number of ways that for brevity there is no need to specify. There is however a risk that an individual seeking to inform himself as to the regulations could be jeopardised in such efforts because if he found the 2005 regulations and then notice the rules for service in those regulations do not match the rules for service on the PCN, he might be mislead into thinking he has not found the regulations relevant to his PCN.

Lastly, the PCN states on the last page that:

"Failure to either pay the amount due or make an appeal with the Adjudicator, within the prescribed time, will result in a charge certificate being served and the amount due increased by 50% to £90.00"

Hence for the reasons explained in Anthony Hall v Kent County Council (with Tunbridge Wells BC) (KU-00042-1810, 07 December 2018), the PCN is invalid and must be cancelled.

Considering the cumulative effect of these failings, the PCN cannot be substantially compliant and no penalty may be demanded on the back of it, in other words in the circumstances of the case the only penalty that may be demanded is nil.

This post has been edited by peodude: Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:15
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:37
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That seems like a reasonable challenge, send it off and let's see what they say. Include a link to the Anthony Hall decision in your representation so they can have a look at it: http://bit.ly/2DmNq7N


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 13:58
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May as well throw in that the Bus Lanes regs require the recipient must be told that they can view the video at an office of their choice.
The option to view online may be regarded as sufficient (including by adjudicators) but is not what the regulations state.
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peodude
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:18
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:58) *
May as well throw in that the Bus Lanes regs require the recipient must be told that they can view the video at an office of their choice.
The option to view online may be regarded as sufficient (including by adjudicators) but is not what the regulations state.


It does say that you can view at an office about halfway down the second page.

I've just noticed that this is contrary to the appeal template posted earlier. I just skim read it earlier. I'll have to remove that section, they mush have updated it.

I don't totally understand the reference to the rules for service, i've attached the page in question to see if they have updated them as well.





This post has been edited by peodude: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 - 10:15
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:31
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QUOTE (peodude @ Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 15:18) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:58) *
May as well throw in that the Bus Lanes regs require the recipient must be told that they can view the video at an office of their choice.
The option to view online may be regarded as sufficient (including by adjudicators) but is not what the regulations state.


It does say that you can view at an office about halfway down the second page.

So it does, so drop that part from your representation.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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peodude
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 14:32
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I've just edited the post cp to show the rules of service, is that bit still OK?
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cp8759
post Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 16:46
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QUOTE (peodude @ Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 15:32) *
I've just edited the post cp to show the rules of service, is that bit still OK?

Who knows? You've not shown us the other pages.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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peodude
post Fri, 22 Oct 2021 - 10:17
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 17:46) *
QUOTE (peodude @ Thu, 21 Oct 2021 - 15:32) *
I've just edited the post cp to show the rules of service, is that bit still OK?

Who knows? You've not shown us the other pages.


Apologies, i'd edited the 3rd page into Post 6. I've also just put 4th page on Post 6 as well for completeness.

Thanks.
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cp8759
post Fri, 22 Oct 2021 - 11:09
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Yes they've still including the wrong rules relating to service so include that bit. On top of that the grounds of appeal quoted on the PCN are wrong, but that can wait for the tribunal if need be.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 22 Oct 2021 - 11:09


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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