Minor Driving Error - Situation Turned Ugly and Was Assaulted - Need Assistance Options

[tootle]

Hello, I looked around online for some forums to help me regarding this, I think its best suited here, and hope to find some help regarding my problem.

Last November I was approaching a small roundabout and waiting to merge. The roundabout in question is of poor design - as you approach it, you have poor visibility of the right lanes approaching vehicles (if any) until its too late due to the tree line and fencing blocking useful visibility. There is also a lamp post immediately to the drivers right in the island crossing forcing you to notch forward a little to clear it. It’s an all round bad design but this is not the subject matter, at least I think. As I wait for the last few cars to clear past, I notched forward (to clear the lamp post to my right for visibility) as the final car passes, I tap the peddle and right as I do, a vehicle appears, so in the split second I had to react, I proceeded in and go across. It seemed like the only thing possible at the moment. Most drivers would just mind each other in odd/mitigating situations like these and not make a fuss.

I was wrong in assuming. The car shot in, and began horning excessively and aggressively, the driver then did a full U-turn and started tailing me, I genuinely thought this guy was going to fight me in his fit of road rage, no other reason for such poor behaviour. The area in question is a shoddy part of London so all seemed fitting. Blue lights come on, and it appears to be an undercover vehicle. He steps out approaches my car aggressively and the first thing he demands is I take the keys out and get out of my car. I was thrown back for a second by his rapid escalation saying I will be arrested if I didn't. It was all very over the top, unprovoked, and aggressive. Bare in mind, he is in what appeared to be plain clothes before he approached my window so my fight or flight instincts at this point is extremely high.

I respectfully asked him if I had to get out, and that I’d prefer not to, I was genuinely not feeling right about this. He again said he would arrest me if I didn’t, and this is when I activated the camera on my phone and began recording unobtrusively. I also informed him polity that I was recording. He changed his tone instantly, asking me to now produce my documents for the vehicle “sir” He then asked for my drivers license details for which I provided. I followed this by asking him if he could simply identify himself for the record, for which he refused by saying “we’ll get to that later” and he went back to his car.

In the mean time a second plain clothes officer approaches my passenger door asking to see my VIN number. The second officer then starts touching my cars tyres for which I don’t approve of. He says his doing a “safety” check. He said he wants the VIN to check that the car is not stolen(???) he notes down the VIN and leaves. All of this was very bizarre from my stand point, leaving me to assume it was some sort of power play or intimidation tactic, so I simply remained calm. In the mean time I asked the first officer once again if he could identify himself but he ignored my request. He would pop back and forward from his car asking me all sorts of odd questions like what ‘race’ do I identify as etc? All of this was just plain odd.

After faffing about with my VIN details in his laptop for a good 10 minutes he returned telling me that I was driving inconsiderately and that is what I will be prosecuted for (or along those lines) he then asked me how I would like to word this for the report. So I start explaining the oddity of the approach angle and that I had already tapped to go forward as he appeared and proceeded forward as safe as I thought it would be. Not much could be done as we had both essentially entered the roundabout at the same time.

This is where it started to go downhill very fast. He proclaimed that he couldn’t write everything I wanted into his laptop due to a word limit restriction. He said that he will cut it down to a few words only. I disagreed and asked him to put down everything I said or simply nothing at all. He proceeded to say that he could give me his laptop, and I could write down what I wanted instead. I was confused by this as he already told me that he couldn’t fit this information into the given space. Immediately I realised there was no word restriction at all, and that he was lying for some reason and wasn’t being truthful. I began typing up the incident as I saw it in detail.

Once I was done, I wanted to check over what I had wrote and this is where he turned ugly very quickly!

He demanded I give back his laptop, I turned to him and to ask why, what had happened? He said it again ‘GIVE ME BACK MY LAPTOP.’ I was STUNNED as he was clearly in RAGE for NO reason what so ever, all within a matter of seconds! (Up until this point he had stood quietly without interaction.) Before I could even ask what the hell was going on, the second officer comes around to the passengers side door and tries to force his way into my car, I tell him to STOP as I was genuinely terrified of them both at this point, it genuinely felt like I was being ambushed. It went from calm to aggressive in SECONDS and I started to panic! All of this was unprovoked and on video as proof. As my head was turned away to the passenger side, the first officer reaches into my car, grabs my hand and bends my fingers back whilst grabbing the laptop from me.

In absolute shock at what is happening around me I turned back to him and asked “why did you just assault me?” For which he replied “I HAD TO DIDN’T I, YOU STOLE MY LAPTOP!”

This is where the shock kicked in and I just froze. I genuinely froze. My brain could not comprehend what had just happened. As I’m looking at him I said “you gave it to me to write on, what are you talking about??” This is when he said something along the lines of “we're done here” and that's when I demanded he give his name and details but he refused once again, I then began shouting for him to identify himself but he just smirked as he walked away. That’s when I jumped out of the car and went after him DEMANDING he give me his name for which he is still refusing, he then said “ah, it seems you’ve stepped out of your car now, which means I can now take a picture of you for a the police database.” I was completely SICKENED by what this guy is doing and how he is conducting himself. I once again demand he give me his details for which he finally did!

His partner backed him up by saying he saw me take his laptop and not return it! Which is the reason why he tried to get into my car! I’m standing there listening to this in absolute disgust. I told them both that I have been filming the whole time and they are clearly lying! I informed them I will be filing a complaint with the police but they seemed unfazed. At this point they where finding this mildly amusing and it was genuinely dystopic! I was left there by myself feeling genuinely dazed and confused at this bizarre event, their conduct and behaviour.

I never got around to filling that police complaint, it had taken a few weeks but I had calmed down by then and slowly began to forget about it until yesterday when I opened a letter for intention of prosecution for inconsiderate driving and that I must accept the penalty points and a fine or go to court.

Guys, I am seriously dumbfounded. I am lost and not sure what to do. It was, as I said before, an extremely dystopic experience I thought I had left behind me. I still have the video footage that corroborates everything I have said above. The officer in question also had on a bodycam but I am not sure whether or not it was recording. What exactly is the best step to take from this point on? Can I request video footage from them to build a case, if so, would any case I bring to court be based on the whole event that took place or just what lead up to it? Below is a recap of the events that are documented on video:

1) A minor error accrues, which is blown out of proportion.
2) Threatened me with arrest with no legitimate reason.
3) Refused to provide his details from the beginning.
4) Lied about the word count restriction (for some unknown reason)
5) Physically assaulted me, unprovoked, and admitted to it.
6) Accused me of theft, and then walked off.
7) Took my photo for an unknown police database, only after he forced me out of the car to get his information.

All the help I can get at this stage is profusely appreciated, as I am on my own and in the dark regarding this.

Best Regards.

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[southpaw82]

It seems there are two issues - your driving and the police’s conduct. Only one of those is a motoring matter. Which would you like help on? If the latter, post the video.

[Jlc]

Last November I was approaching a small roundabout and waiting to merge. The roundabout in question is of poor design

What's the location or a google streetview link?

But as noted, regardless of the events afterwards, you may be guilty of the alleged offence. (But does seem harsh from what you've described)

[mickR]

You say they were in plain clothes but that they had body cams ??

[tootle]

It seems there are two issues - your driving and the police’s conduct. Only one of those is a motoring matter. Which would you like help on? If the latter, post the video.

Hey, thanks for the replies. Ultimately, I would like help with the ticket first, as I phoned the IPOC and they said I can file a claim against police misconduct at anytime. However any help with either is an bonus. I am legitimately surprised he went ahead with this after all he had done, I would have thought he knew he messed up big time, but nope.

Last November I was approaching a small roundabout and waiting to merge. The roundabout in question is of poor design

What's the location or a google streetview link?
But as noted, regardless of the events afterwards, you may be guilty of the alleged offence. (But does seem harsh from what you've described)

I will check on google and post it back. The police vehicle apparently has on board video. Is it possible to request this at this stage or do I have to wait for a summons to be offered?

You say they were in plain clothes but that they had body cams ??

Sorry to have confused you guys with the original post, it was early in the morning for me.

The first officer that stepped out was wearing what appeared to be regular clothes and jeans but once he came to the window I saw the black police vest, those discrete ones. Later when he reappeared (after I had started filming) he had on his body cam as well.

The second officer was in plain clothes, he had on a woolly fleece with no police clothing at all. He refused to provide his name, but ended up giving me his police number.

This post has been edited by tootle: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 17:10

[mickR]

You say they were in plain clothes but that they had body cams ??

Sorry to have confused you guys with the original post, it was early in the morning for me.

The first officer that stepped out was wearing what appeared to be regular clothes and jeans but once he came to the window I saw the black police vest, those discrete ones. Later when he reappeared (after I had started filming) he had on his body cam as well.

The second officer was in plain clothes, he had on a woolly fleece with no police clothing at all. He refused to provide his name, but ended up giving me his police number.

So one plod in plain clothes but a police vest and the other with nothing indicating a police officer? Hmmm i to would have been suspicious. Good thinking to video. Are there any reasons you think they may have taken this action??

[tootle]

Yes, that's correct. I think they got annoyed that I didn't get out of the car. So they started checking the whole car over to find something wrong with it, but couldn't. I thought they where doing this just to waste my time, but I wasn't too bothered to be honest.

This post has been edited by tootle: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 18:15

[mickR]

Can someone better informed confirm if an officer not in uniform can carryout vehicle checks? Just a thought.

[southpaw82]

Can someone better informed confirm if an officer not in uniform can carryout vehicle checks? Just a thought.

Yes.

[tootle]

I was curious about what mickR said, so I checked a few posts online, one being from a police forum, but I'm not sure of the relevance as it is from 2015:

"Another ruling ruled that an officer wearing plain clothes with body armour with police markings on was not deemed as uniform, I'm guessing you need to be wearing mostly uniform to be classed as "in uniform""

this apparently, in some circumstances, invalids the stop. But again, this information is dated quite a bit and not sure how much is relevant (they are referring mainly to drink driving.)

https://police.community/topic/3787-not-in-uniform/#comments

https://police.community/topic/3787-not-in-...p;comment=36884

This post has been edited by tootle: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 - 19:12

[Fredd]

this apparently, in some circumstances, invalids the stop. But again, this information is dated quite a bit and not sure how much is relevant (they are referring mainly to drink driving.)

Whether they had the power to require you to stop is not really relevant to whether they had the power to check your car once you had stopped.

[tootle]

Hey guys, thanks for all the replies, I've been trying to login ever since but failed miserably. I reset my password so many times but I wasn't receiving the emails with the new passwords, just a link to reset it for which I kept following. Anyway, all is sorted now (it happened after trying to login with my phone.)

I was told to reply to the police asking for them to provide me with a description of the event or possibly the original police cars footage before either a) accepting the fine, or b) going to court. Is this even possible? As I was informed that it was. However can I do so at the current stage? (28 days to respond to the fixed penalty) I would like to see the point of view from the police car for my own case, perception is important in situations like these. From my point of view, it seemed fair and reasonable to move in at the given time, or better yet, given the circumstances, was safe to clear the space available without problem. The police car being aggressive and provocative was just unnecessary for such a tiny roundabout.

Thanks fellas!

This post has been edited by tootle: Thu, 5 Mar 2020 - 23:48

[The Rookie]

I was told to reply to the police asking for them to provide me with a description of the event or possibly the original police cars footage

By whom were you told?

The chances of you getting that without taking the matter to court is very slim.

The Police do not have to provide you with anything at this stage, if they do it's entirely voluntary, you either accept the FP or don't, if you don't it's all but certain you'll be 'summonsed' to court, that will contain the barest from the Police of the accusation sufficient for sentencing, if you plead not guilty then they will send the material they intend to rely on to prosecute plus a list of unused evidence which you can request (with a reasoning to do so). but then you face prosecution costs starting from £620.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 6 Mar 2020 - 04:54