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(Issued 05/09/18) - PCN 02: Parked in loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force
BobbertM
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 17:57
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Hey all! Hope you guys might be able to help me once more(quite a few years since the last one, but it didn't hold so fingers crossed for this one too!). Essentially last Wednesday I got a ticket on my car after being parked where I thought was fine for about 30 minutes, if that? Unforuntately I was in the middle of a lot of stuff and leaving the country and have only just came back - so didn't have any time to get the ticket properly posted up until now. I understand unless I'm mistaken I'll have until Wednesday 19/09/18 to appeal informally?

I shall attach the pictures of the ticket front/back with some deets obscured, my own photos, and then the PCN evidence photos. I later see the sign that is referred to, but I'll hopefully explain further my PoV with my own pictures and the lack of any lines indicating the restriction to me.








(this was behind me and I missed it, I was behind a bay with the above white parking bay sign though)


This post has been edited by BobbertM: Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 18:16
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post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 17:57
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stamfordman
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 18:06
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First thing first - do not use Photobucket. Try Imgur and post BBCode links.

https://imgbb.com is also good and simple - and also allows BBCode links to be copied and pasted.
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BobbertM
post Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 18:07
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 14 Sep 2018 - 19:06) *
First thing first - do not use Photobucket. Try Imgur and post BBCode links.

https://imgbb.com is also good and simple - and also allows BBCode links to be copied and pasted.


Yeah sorry man, I'm really trying to get these photos uploaded and parsed but I've been away and I'm at a wedding about 20 damn minutes ago. Worst time to get a parking.
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cp8759
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 11:45
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Post a link to the location on Google Street View.


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hcandersen
post Sun, 16 Sep 2018 - 12:57
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The last day of the 14-day period is 18th because day 1 is when the PCN was served i.e. 5th.
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BobbertM
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 11:51
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Sorry guys, like an idiot I fell off a chair and cracked my head on Friday evening
with an a+e trip andd have been a bit fuzzy since. Do I have grounds for arguing that due to a lack of yellow lines it does not hold valid? IE pulling up my car there is no clear restriction upon the street for me to find a sign I wouldn't have seen otherwise? Location on Google(realising short time given hcandersens response) is coming shortly...

https://goo.gl/maps/EbpjS2GMVBN2

Also realised as I post this I recognise the name and appreciate that you're still around here @hcandersen - my apologies again for such **** timing in my life of ticket holiday and probably concussion, I realise it's super late now and basically I have today by which to submit a formal appeal(tho I'd think 14 days is from the day of issuing, not including itself! But I can see the reasoning) Edit: again being a bit less mashed after the head split I've re-read and see those terms of the appeal period being pretty bang to, soz for my sillyness

Test



EDIT: given that today is the last of 14 days I'll write and submit and informal appeal on the above grounds of lack of informative road markings via a yellow line for me to be aware of this. I imagine a rejection given its Bexley and informal, but are there any other points off the top of anyone's head I could argue? I saw no yellow sign or line and parked behind a bay with no recollects let restriction enforced in the area of that time, looking a.) To the white sign for some advice but b.) It's an unmarked road. There is no line under my wheels(the road looks unusual but it's a road afaik as it has been all my life, they did a recent renno to the town a few years back and but in these new aesthetic looking roads but I can't imagine for a second it can count for footway, nor does the contravention care for such anyway)

This post has been edited by BobbertM: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 13:08
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BobbertM
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 17:31
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So I've seen a little bit more about 'RPZ's which don't require yellow lines? Does anyone know if they at least require an entry/exit point sign facing the driver as they enter said zone, similar to in a CPZ? I can understand that they've got their sign on the sign, but it isn't clear to a driver unless they're looking out of the side of their window whilst driving along instead of in front of themselves, or at least not so far that I've seen.
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 19:28
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We know all about RPZs, if you give us a link to the location on Google Street View we'll check if the signs are compliant.


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BobbertM
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 13:09
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 20:28) *
We know all about RPZs, if you give us a link to the location on Google Street View we'll check if the signs are compliant.


My apologies - I thought I had done so in my last post (https://goo.gl/maps/EbpjS2GMVBN2) - does the link for streeview not work properly? When I click it it seems to take me to the area, but I'm not sure if that's due to cookies etc that it doesnt display so much for yourselves? I made a informal appeal which I'll copy into this below, and I think I've gotten a rejection that I'll attempt to post a picture of if not at least transcribe(computer not a fan of mobile phone atm);

EDIT: Not sure why this isn't a clickable link for the last post ( https://goo.gl/maps/EbpjS2GMVBN2 ) but if that works and you can see the William Hill alongside The Rose pub - that's basically the bay outside of which I was parked up right behind. Apologies again taking so long to respond - had left it until I saw the letter come through(gonna read/post when I get home, expecting rejection)

"Dear Sir/Madam,

I challenge the enforceability of the above, XLXXXXXXXX, on the grounds of inadequate and unclear signage in addition to unclear road markings. I note the evidence offered is a yellow sign, though this is not placed at an entry/exit point to the area for clear visibility, in addition to which I note there are further no clear markings such as yellow lines or further signage upon the road for a driver to follow in order to recognise this restriction is in place at the location in which the vehicle in question was parked. Whilst your website explains that yellow lines are not necessary within an RPZ area that this is claimed to be - I dispute this is a valid RPZ contravention as signs to indicate this are not clearly placed at entry or exit points to this zone.

I contend that despite the evidence offered that this signage and markings for this area were not at the time sufficient to meet requirements so as to adequately inform drivers of restrictions so as to be sufficiently aware to be liable for this contravention, and thus contest that it is neither valid nor enforceable.

Regards,
<name>"

Submitted on Tuesday 18th September ~@18.40

This post has been edited by BobbertM: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 13:13
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BobbertM
post Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 15:04
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Had a horrible few days to a couple health bits in addition to getting files of my phone proving tricky due to it(used someone else's computer for the last few).

As expected they rejected it saying that RPZs don't need to be marked etc and they're signposted at entry and exit with repeater signs(such as offered in their evidence) but I haven't managed to find exactly where this RPZ signs are for the area. I'm aware of the CPZ ones, but this isn't the same as they restrict for different times, I may just be very blind to them as it's a fairly regular/local area for me but I can't see them.

Anyone know if there's somewhere I can find the formal plans of RPZs or anyone managed to see the RPZ signs on/via the GoogleMaps link from earlier posts? I'm hoping if I'm well enough time to take a drive round the area and place them if I can find them, or a walk if I have to/can.
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cp8759
post Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 19:57
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Well I've found gateway signs here: https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4574194,0.1...3312!8i6656

Obviously you know how you got to where you parked, so you need to retrace your route and find exactly where you crossed into the RPZ. If at the point where you entered the zone the signs are missing or obscured, you have a case to argue.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sat, 29 Sep 2018 - 19:57


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