PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Grass verge next to DYL part of highway?
YellowMETP
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:46
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,804



Hi,

I recently received a PCN for contravention conde 01. I was parked on a grass verge at the time (see photo).

Attached Image


I challenged the PCN and stated that I wasn't parked on a DYL, because I wasn't even on the highway. The council claim that:

' The double yellow line restriction covers the highway and as such it runs from the centre of the road to the nearest property boundary which includes all pavements and grass verges.'.

I have asked for evidence relating to this claim, however they have yet to provide any...

I know that footpath parking is not allowed and can be pursued / enforced in London, however this is not in London it is in Hampshire.

My next step is to wait for the NTO and take to Tribunal but...

Does the highway include footpaths and verges? My own research suggests that it does not because an awful lot of councils mention it and talk about it being a problem.

From what I have read... The fact is that currently there is no national law that makes it an offence for cars to be parked on a footway or verge (outside of London).

It is not an offence to park a motor vehicle (other than a Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV)) on a grass verge or footway unless:
* it causes an obstruction
* a local byelaw is in force prohibiting it, or
* there are waiting restrictions on the road (which also apply to the highway verge).

None of the above was applicable in my case, and I wasn't obstructing anything. Any thoughts?

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 12)
Advertisement
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:46
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:58
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 13,735
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



Looks bang to rights to me.
DYL covers from middle of road to private property line including paths and verges.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Slapdash
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:59
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,864
Joined: 2 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,040



If you redact the PCN and post it there might be something wrong with it for technical challenge.

That land looks like highway to me and covered by the DYL as asserted.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
southpaw82
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 11:59
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 33,610
Joined: 2 Apr 2008
From: Not in the UK
Member No.: 18,483



Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, s 142

QUOTE
road”—
(a) in England and Wales, means any length of highway or of any other road to which the public has access, and includes bridges over which a road passes





--------------------
Moderator

Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 12:15
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



From what I have read... The fact is that currently there is no national law that makes it an offence for cars to be parked on a footway or verge (outside of London). Correct

It is not an offence to park a motor vehicle (other than a Heavy Goods Vehicle (HGV)) on a grass verge or footway unless:
* it causes an obstruction
* a local byelaw is in force prohibiting it, or
* there are waiting restrictions on the road (which also apply to the highway verge). and there were


...that’s what DYL convey.

Pay the discount if still available. If not, then post your challenge, their reply and any NTO which you might have received.

Are you the registered keeper and are your details up to date?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
YellowMETP
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 13:57
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,804



Thanks for all the replies! Doesn't look good...

Here is the challenger response letter...

Please excuse the lipstick stain, I used it to blot biggrin.gif

Attached Image


Attached Image




I am the registered keeper and details all up to date...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 15:56
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



And the PCN, and the council?

You are making life difficult because we need this information.

There is a potential successful grounds of representation depending on the PCN and what happens on 29th and 30th.

Don’t ask what this is, post the PCN, both sides less personal info.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
YellowMETP
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 16:41
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,804



Hi, I wasn't trying to make life difficult.

The council is Rushmoor and I can't find the original ticket / PCN. I had it when I wrote to challenge but no idea what I did with it, and I can't find it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 20:12
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 13:15) *
From what I have read... The fact is that currently there is no national law that makes it an offence for cars to be parked on a footway or verge (outside of London). Correct

Only if you deposit the car with a crane. While it's not an offence to be parked on a verge or footway, driving the car onto a verge or footway is a criminal offence under section 72 of the Highway Act 1835 and section 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, although this can only be enforced by the police and not by councils.

QUOTE (YellowMETP @ Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 17:41) *
Hi, I wasn't trying to make life difficult.

The council is Rushmoor and I can't find the original ticket / PCN. I had it when I wrote to challenge but no idea what I did with it, and I can't find it.

You can ask the council for a copy.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 22:00
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



But as the question referred to parked, the comment is correct and, with respect, the interjection is hardly material.

What is more material is this from the council’s policy:

the driver or the keeper can challenge the penalty charge. If the challenge is received within 14 days, the discount period is suspended and if the challenge is accepted the penalty charge is cancelled. If it is rejected we may offer another14 days to pay at the discounted rate;

Not up to, or any number of days chosen by an officer. It’s 14 or nothing.

But it’s not in this case, it’s 12 because they’ve extended it for 14 days from the date of the letter.

But it was posted and therefore you had 12 at most.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
YellowMETP
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 10:56
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,804



QUOTE (hcandersen @ Tue, 21 Aug 2018 - 23:00) *
[i]Not up to, or any number of days chosen by an officer. It’s 14 or nothing.

But it’s not in this case, it’s 12 because they’ve extended it for 14 days from the date of the letter.

But it was posted and therefore you had 12 at most.


Does this mean I can challenge? or Should I just pay?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 11:32
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,063
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



Letter dated 13th, deemed served 15th, therefore end of 14-day extended payment period to which they’re oblgated is 28th.

I would wait until 28th. If discount is still available then I’d pay because whether through design or incompetence they’ve extended the discount to their self-imposed limit, so you would have suffered no loss and IMO given the clear contravention no adj would allow an appeal based only on this glitch in the wording of a response to a pre-NTO challenge.

BUT, if this glitch translates into reality and you cannot pay the discount on 28th then IMO I’d wait for the NTO and make reps...’procedural impropriety’
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
YellowMETP
post Wed, 22 Aug 2018 - 13:27
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26
Joined: 5 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,804



Thanks smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:02
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here