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Excel/VCS/bwlegal - PCN from March 2012, Threads merged
Persephone
post Tue, 30 Aug 2016 - 14:10
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I collected information from this forum after the receipt of a “Notice to Owner” dated 16/4/2012 until the threatening letters from Whites stopped arriving later in 2012. I did not respond to any of those.
On 27th July 2016 I received the letter from VCS passing my “account” to bwLegal and, in the same post, another letter from bwLegal claiming a “balance due” of £174.00, comprising a PCN charge of £120.00 plus £54.00 “initial legal costs”. Once again I researched this forum and came up with this response:

1 August 2016
Dear Sir/Madam,

In response to your letter of 25 July 2016, a copy of which I enclose, I deny any debt to Vehicle Control Services Parking Limited. As I’m sure you are aware, the alleged event took place before the enactment of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, and I was not the driver. Thus, your client has no right to pursue me as the registered keeper.

You have no reasonable cause to continue to process my personal information, including Vehicle Registration Mark. As such you must confirm within 21 days that you and all your agents have ceased processing my data, to prevent further distress and harassment being caused. You must treat this as a Section 10 notice under the Data Protection Act.

No consent has been given, or will be given, for you to process my data. Should you contend consent was given, which is denied, it is revoked.

Do not reference Elliot Vs Loake. You are fully aware this does not apply in this case. Similarly, I should not have to remind you that your £54 "legal" charges cannot possibly be recovered at small claims, as per CPR27.14.

In summary:
1 I was not the driver of the vehicle on 16 March 2012.
2 BW Legal has attempted to mislead me by demanding £54 legal costs, which cannot be recovered in the Small Claims Court.
3 BW Legal has also misrepresented the consequences of a judgement - a CCJ “may have a detrimental effect on my future creditworthiness and employability”.
4 Vehicle Control Services Parking Limited’s delay of over four years to begin legal action is unreasonable behaviour.

Yours faithfully,



bwLegal’s response to that arrived on 25/8/2016 (dated 23 Aug).


I’ll try to post an image.


What is the best way forward? Do I use Gan’s concise response:

Dear Sir/Madam,
Ref: *****
I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 23 August 2016.

I refer you to my previously reply, a copy of which is enclosed

My position is unchanged

Yours Faithfully

OR can I rant a bit?

Dear Sir/Madam,
Ref: *****
I acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 23 August 2016 and would like to draw your attention to the following:
1. I deny any debt to your client. The £174.00 is the sum of £120.00 PCN Charge plus £54.00 your legal fees.
2. I did not “suggest” I was not the driver of the car. I clearly stated I was not the driver.
3. I do not know who the driver was on 16 March 2012. Even if I did it would be impossible to provide you with that information “within 7 days” as you letter arrived on Thursday 25th August - just before a Bank Holiday weekend.
4. You referenced the case Elliot Vs Loake despite my pointing out to you that it does not apply in this case.
5. Your extract From the DVLA Release of Information document does not address my request that you cease processing my data.
6. your reference to the £100.00 PCN charge does not match with point 1, where the PCN charge is clearly £120.00 (£174.00 minus £54.00 legal fees).
7. Your reference to ParkingEye v Beavis (2015) is not relevant in this case.
8. Your statement that “the relevant car parking Codes of Practice also gives guidance that £100.00 is a reasonable sum to charge” seems to be an error as you are asking me to pay a charge of £120.00. See also points 1 and 6.
9. Referencing the “detailed terms and conditions located within the Car Park” is not very helpful as I have already stated that I was not in that car park.
Finally, I was staying in a hotel in Basingstoke at a family event over the weekend 16 - 18 March 2012. I was not the driver of the vehicle on 16th March 2012. I do not know who was driving the vehicle on that date.

Yours Faithfully
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post Tue, 30 Aug 2016 - 14:10
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 07:32
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Shame there was no counterclaim
I predict a discontinunace which, if received early enough, means youre unlikely to get a costs hearing in its stead.
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Persephone
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:39
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Many thanks for your input SchoolRunMum and Redividi. Special thanks to Redividi for the full reworking of my letter. I'll redraft and prepare to send.
They have to pay the court fee before 4pm on Friday, 20th July, so it's unlikely they'll receive my letter before then.


QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:32) *
Shame there was no counterclaim
I predict a discontinunace which, if received early enough, means youre unlikely to get a costs hearing in its stead.


Is it too late for a counterclaim? It's no longer about the money. It's the lack of consideration about the affect on people - the bullying and harassment and the chaos caused by these Roboclaims.
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I am Weasel
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 08:41
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In the event of a discontinuance, could the OP still not get their osts to dat met as per CPR38.6(1) which states
QUOTE
Unless the court orders otherwise, a claimant who discontinues is liable for the costs which a defendant against whom the claimant discontinues incurred on or before the date on which notice of discontinuance was served on the defendant.
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Redivi
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 09:43
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CPR 38.6(3) states that the rule doesn't apply to the Small Claims track
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Persephone
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:19
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:43) *
CPR 38.6(3) states that the rule doesn't apply to the Small Claims track


Darn!
Too late for a counterclaim?

According to the papers from the court, if they don't pay by 4pm Friday they will be liable for the Defendant's costs. If they don't discontinue they will almost certainly pay the court fee.
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Redivi
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:36
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The court fee is only £25

If they discontinue afterward, however, I would ask the Court for the full costs

The Court's letter is telling VCS that it's liable for your costs if it doesn't pay the Hearing Fee to continue the case
You can argue that the Court intended VCS to be liable if it discontinues at any time without reasonable cause

Otherwise, VCS may as well avoid its liability by enclosing the Hearing Fee and Notice of Discontinuance in the same envelope
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Persephone
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:55
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:36) *
The court fee is only £25

If they discontinue afterward, however, I would ask the Court for the full costs

The Court's letter is telling VCS that it's liable for your costs if it doesn't pay the Hearing Fee to continue the case
You can argue that the Court intended VCS to be liable if it discontinues at any time without reasonable cause

Otherwise, VCS may as well avoid its liability by enclosing the Hearing Fee and Notice of Discontinuance in the same envelope


Thank you Redivi, that makes things clearer. I'll continue with my offer letter and deal with discontinuance when/if it happens.
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ostell
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:22
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But not being able to claim costs for discontinuance is not set in stone and really P****ing off the judge may get the judge to allow a costs claim.
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Persephone
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:17
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QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:22) *
But not being able to claim costs for discontinuance is not set in stone and really P****ing off the judge may get the judge to allow a costs claim.


And I have made a point of mentioning "unreasonable behaviour" in both defence and witness statement. Although the WS is unlikely to have been read yet.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:52
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That isnt what will piss off a judge, really
Only telling the court less than 24 hours before the hearing date seemed to annoy one judge in another thread. But they could be entirely sanguine about it

If they dont pay the hearing fee then you may need to stump up the money for a hearing on costs.
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cabbyman
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:32
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They gave you until 24/7 to respond to their 'perfectly reasonable' offer to settle, but they have until 20/7 to pay the court fee. Do I have that correct?

If so, leave your reply until Friday. You have complied with their deadline but, they may still panic and pay the court fee, in which case, you have cost them money anyway! You may also have a better chance of claiming costs.


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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Redivi
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:48
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Nice one
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Persephone
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 17:57
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 18:32) *
They gave you until 24/7 to respond to their 'perfectly reasonable' offer to settle, but they have until 20/7 to pay the court fee. Do I have that correct?

If so, leave your reply until Friday. You have complied with their deadline but, they may still panic and pay the court fee, in which case, you have cost them money anyway! You may also have a better chance of claiming costs.


I can now add "pissing off judges" to the long list of gained knowledge because of this claim. biggrin.gif

I'll post it Friday to be delivered 23rd/24th. I can phone the court on Monday to see where the case stands.

I keep saying it: I'm so grateful for the help and support that you all give me.
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Persephone
post Yesterday, 19:53
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The alternative offer is in the post and they should receive it on Monday, 23rd July.

I phoned the court at 4.30pm as the deadline for payment of the court fee was 4pm today. They had paid the court fee on 12th July.
I suppose the discontinuance notification wait won't be long. At the moment I'm really considering making a claim for costs.
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cabbyman
post Yesterday, 20:06
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Popcorn time! tongue.gif


--------------------
Cabbyman 8 PPCs 0
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Persephone
post Yesterday, 20:19
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 21:06) *
Popcorn time! tongue.gif


Choc ice & Poirot. biggrin.gif
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