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Dart Charge 3 PCNs - Database Error? Prepaid account shows no record of crossings
arka10
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:21
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Hi folks,

My mother's received 3 '2nd stage' (£105 fine) PCNs from Dart Charge, referring to crossings dated on the 13th and 15th of September, stating that she'd failed to make payment or any representation after the 1st letter. She doesn't have any recollection of receiving a 1st letter, and the issue date on the these ones is the 6th of November. We share the car and maintain a prepaid account as we use the crossing regularly, and typically we just top this up as we go.

What's fishy is that there are no records of the crossings during which the alleged contraventions occurred under 'crossing history' on the prepaid account, and we're both pretty sure we never got a first PCN. Usually if you have a prepaid account, you get a conditional offer that the PCN is cancelled if you top up the account with sufficient funds to pay for the crossing within 14 days, we've been caught out like this in the past and it's usually fine. To the best of my knowledge, 'crossing history' shows all crossings made by vehicles registered on the prepaid account (whether paid for or not), so I'm guessing what's happened must have been some kind of error in Dart Charge's system where they failed to link our vehicle to the account, needless to say, we'd have no idea and carry on as normal assuming payments were being taken, but of course they weren't and this happened.

I'm going to make a representation to Dart Charge on her behalf, but just wondering what the best way to go about this would be; is it a 'procedural impropriety'?

Any help would be much appreciated, thanks smile.gif
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post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:21
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:29
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first post the documents you have. they sound like charge certificates, and you cannot appeal against them. But if you can show you had a live account with funds available then Dart are known to be reasonable


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Incandescent
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:49
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When was the auto-pay account set up ? Any crossings made before the date of setting it up are not paid by it.

As requested by PMB, please post the documents. DART are normally reasonable especially as you have an account.
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arka10
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:54
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:29) *
first post the documents you have. they sound like charge certificates, and you cannot appeal against them. But if you can show you had a live account with funds available then Dart are known to be reasonable




QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:49) *
When was the auto-pay account set up ? Any crossings made before the date of setting it up are not paid by it.

As requested by PMB, please post the documents. DART are normally reasonable especially as you have an account.


The account was set up over a year ago, there are consistent records of crossings both before and after the dates of the PCNs.
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Steve_999
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 09:39
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And were there sufficient funds in the prepay account at the times of the crossings?
I know that you said that in the event that there was not a sufficient balance, you would receive a warning, that sounds like it is from previous experience. Could it be that they do indeed send a warning the first time (or couple of times) but then revert to issuing charges?
Why not use auto-topup to prevent this happening?
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Neil B
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 10:33
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 09:39) *
I know that you said that in the event that there was not a sufficient balance, you would receive a warning, that sounds like it is from previous experience. Could it be that they do indeed send a warning the first time (or couple of times) but then revert to issuing charges?

That's my understanding too.

---
The opening post was very confusing when I read it last night and not much better this morning.
If I understand correctly, you didn't fund the prepaid account? and incurred 3 PCNs.

I think your trying to fault Dart in some way is clutching at straws and more likely to harm than help.
You don't seem to be disputing the crossings. Or have I got that wrong?

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On the more immediate issue -
It's a simple process to reset to PCN stage.

Wait for the next doc, TE3 Order for Recovery, complete the TE9 Witness Statement that comes with it
and e-mail to the Traffic Enforcement Centre.

X3 obs.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 10:38


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 15:02
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QUOTE (Steve_999 @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 09:39) *
And were there sufficient funds in the prepay account at the times of the crossings?

This is crucial, warning or no warning, if there's insufficient money in the account when you cross, it's dealt with as a "non-account" crossing and the absence of a warning would not to my knowledge be a ground of appeal. But dart charge may be amenable to waive the penalty if the warning system fell over on this occasion, especially if the account is normally used without incident.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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