Court papers for speeding offence from July 2019 received Options

[settop23]

Hi,

Back in July 2019 i receieved a NIP for a vehicle that i was the registered keeper for. The offence was speeding, and i replied to the NIP naming the driver at the time of the offence (it was not me). After a month i receieved another NIP reminder, and it seemed obvious that they had not receieved my first reply so i sent the NIP back recorded delivery in september. I have a tracking number and signature that the NIP i sent back was receieved on 13 September 2019.

After this i heard nothing, until today when i have receieved a court summons under my name with the option of pleading guilty by post, or pleading not guilty and going to trial. What is the best way forward of dealing with this, will a trip to court be necessary?

Many thanks

[Advertisement]

[Irksome]

What offence(s) are listed on the summons?

[NewJudge]

What is the best way forward of dealing with this, will a trip to court be necessary?

I assume you have been charged with "Failing to Provide Driver's details". If you want to defend the matter then, yes, a trip to court will be necessary.

Do you know if the person you named as the driver heard anything? Along with the tracking confirmation, did you keep a copy of the form you completed and sent?

[settop23]

Hi

Thanks for the reply. it is :

Speeding - exceed 70mph motorway limit - automatic camera device

many thanks

What is the best way forward of dealing with this, will a trip to court be necessary?

I assume you have been charged with "Failing to Provide Driver's details". If you want to defend the matter then, yes, a trip to court will be necessary.

Do you know if the person you named as the driver heard anything? Along with the tracking confirmation, did you keep a copy of the form you completed and sent?

Hi

The charge is Speeding. The person that i named did not receieve anything and lives at the same address as me.

Unfortunately i did not keep a copy of the form i completed and sent, just the tracking confirmation.

[disgrunt]

Do you have a similar name to the driver? At a glance could they have thought you were naming yourself?

Are you sure there aren’t 2 charges listed, speeding and ftf?

[nosferatu1001]

So:
1) You were not driving
2) You nominated - twice - the correct driver
3) They did not receive the first, so you sent again, and can prove they received it. However theres no doubt they did receive *something* back - they would not be prosecuting YOU for speeding if they had not, you would be prosecuted for failing to furnish the details required.

So it sounds like
a) Either you filled out the form incorrectly, somehow naing yourself as the driver and not the relative /friend whatever
OR
b) the back office incorrectly completed it.

You would have to, presumably, defend on the latter basis, submitting a "not guilty" plea. If you can prove you werent there at the time, that should be a good defence.

[settop23]

Hi

There is definitely just the 1 charge of speeding on the documents. The person i named has the same surname as me but a different surname and is female whereas i am male.

yes it sounds like there has been some sort of error with the NIP they receieved back. i am fairly certain i replied naming the driver who i believed to be driving at the time. Will I have to reply to the charge with a not guilty plea and go to trial? what is likely to be the outcome of this

[666]

Hi

There is definitely just the 1 charge of speeding on the documents. The person i named has the same surname as me but a different surname and is female whereas i am male.

yes it sounds like there has been some sort of error with the NIP they receieved back. i am fairly certain i replied naming the driver who i believed to be driving at the time. Will I have to reply to the charge with a not guilty plea and go to trial? what is likely to be the outcome of this

You could try calling the police and explaining their mistake, but the reply is likely to be on the lines of "Too late, it's gone to court".

You cannot be found guilty unless the prosecution can prove you were the driver, which if you are right ("fairly certain"?) they can not.

[Jlc]

Will I have to reply to the charge with a not guilty plea and go to trial?

If you weren't the driver at the material date/time then it wasn't you speeding. So if they are charging you with speeding, why would you plead anything other than not guilty?

What was the speed/limit?

On the face of it they do not have sufficient evidence to convict you anyway. But there is a certain amount of guesswork here as we don't know how the nomination forms were filled in.

Getting matters dropped outside of court are notoriously difficult but you could try, starting with the Police first.

Otherwise the matters can be discussed at a pre-trial hearing where it will either become clear they have made a mistake or there is something else.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 15:23

[NewJudge]

Otherwise the matters can be discussed at a pre-trial hearing where it will either become clear they have made a mistake or there is something else. you did.

Once again, did you keep a copy of the form you completed? It may important from what you have said.

[Irksome]

Unfortunately i did not keep a copy of the form i completed and sent, just the tracking confirmation.

[settop23]

Hi

Thanks for the help so far.

The speed was 98mph on a motorway. It was either my mother or father that was driving at the time. They were on the way back from a relatives house which was quite a way away, I’m fairly sure it was my mother who was driving based on the time and location or the offence.

Thinking back to the NIP, I’m sure that the latest Form i sent which was recorded delivery had my mother’s details on. However the NIP that I sent originally may have been filled out by me incorrectly , either with my details by mistake or my fathers (I can’t quite remember now)

so they may now have located 2 Forms from me naming a different driver, hence why the case has gone to court.

I will try ringing the police tomorrow and seeing if they can provide more information

[Jlc]

98mph is too fast for a fixed penalty - which is why the matter has gone to court but it's unclear what evidence they could present to show you admitted driving.

However the NIP that I sent originally may have been filled out by me incorrectly , either with my details by mistake or my fathers (I can’t quite remember now)

Hmmm - this is worrying. This may be the answer.

so they may now have located 2 Forms from me naming a different driver, hence why the case has gone to court.

Yes, but in these situations they wouldn't normally charge the speeding only.

It would normally be a s172 offence in failing to furnish driver details - or something much worse if a wrong driver has been named.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 - 17:29

[NewJudge]

Have you been provided with the evidence they intend to use to convict you? There should be something in there showing what they will use to prove that you were driving.

[settop23]

Hi

after reading through the evidence it says that a NIP was returned with an admission that i was the driver.

So i think what has happened is when i receieved the first NIP i replied to it, filling in my own details rather than that of the driver who i believed to be driving at that time. This will have been the first NIP i sent back, however a week after i sent it i got another reminder NIP which i replied to with my mothers details who was driving at the time. This is the NIP they signed for on 13 September.

It also says on the evidence that due to the severity of the offence, no offer letters were sent out. the other evidence is from a police offer who i think calibrates or mans the automatic camera.

So if i go to court is filling the form in wrong a valid defence? I think i filled the original NIP incorrectly, and only filled in section A, as i thought because i was the regitered keeper they needed me to confirm my details and sign

[nosferatu1001]

Request that they provide a copy of a) the remindr letter and b) the second NIP you completed.

[settop23]

Hi

Who can I request this from? Do they normally send this within 21 days

Thanks

[cp8759]

Who can I request this from? Do they normally send this within 21 days

When someone takes you to court for anything, they must provide an address for service, this applies to the police as much as it applies to anyone else. I find it hard to imagine that the whatever police back office issued the paperwork included no contact details.

You have a right to the initial details of the prosecution case as per CrimPR Part 8 here https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...015-part-08.pdf

You only have a right to the initial details of the prosecution's case prior to the court hearing if you ask for them, so you must ask. The NIP is obviously material to the plea so it should be included.

[settop23]

Hi

Thanks for your reply. i have checked and the only contact details for the prosecutor (greater manchester police) is a phone number. I will try calling them tommorow, but is it perhaps better to have my request written via email or post?

Thanks

[settop23]

Hi

I have contacted them via their online form today requesting this information.

If, as i suspect, one of the NIPS was wrongly filled in naming me as the driver, could i also be charged with failing to provide driver details?

Thanks