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TOR for obstruction -- Merseyside Police
Manc1
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 21:18
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Hi all,

Need of a little help, got a RC86405 on 08/08/2020 for parking on the pavement near houses, there were couple of cars parked same like me infront with no ticktets so i thought i wont get any ticket for parking at same place.

My concern with the fact the form seems to be incomplete and not sure how much to pay - see attached.
https://imgur.com/a/FRjpIVM



It says do not do anything untill you receive further written instructions from the safer roads unit.

This is where i parked - https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5612209,-3....3312!8i6656

I have attached parking pics.
https://imgur.com/a/d6rnf9x


What the next steps do i need to wait till i get more details from them or should i contac my local police station as there are no details about fine and when it should be paid??


Any advice on next step will be very welcome.

TY in advance

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 23:11
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post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 21:18
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PASTMYBEST
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 21:36
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Next step is wait for the safer roads partnership to contact you maybe a warning a FPN or a summons to court


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Manc1
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 21:53
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QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 22:36) *
Next step is wait for the safer roads partnership to contact you maybe a warning a FPN or a summons to court



They will give option to pay fine am guessing its £30?

And on what grounds i can appeal if they summon to court? as you can see clearly in the google maps i am not obstructing anyone.

Thanks.
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mickR
post Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 23:15
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QUOTE (Manc1 @ Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 22:18) *
It says do not do anything untill you receive further written instructions from the safer roads unit.

What the next steps do i need to wait till i get more details from them


Youve already answered your own question.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 04:55
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My question would be--"if Sefton Council has the legal means to control footpath parking under the TMA as a specific Govt policy (decriminalisation) how can the police be involved?"

Surely this is not optional----the Council doesn't enforce but leaves room for the police!

Apparently this has been happening in Liverpool, so Merseyside Police have history of such practice.

To paraphrase a DfT minister from 16th September 2014 "Any intention to operate outside this statutory regime would clearly go against the will of Parliament, Government policy and the expectations of local electorates".


He was talking about Councils taking their off street car parks from the parking enforcement framework but the same can be said here.


Maybe someone can come up with the alternative view that the Council has to subscribe to that particular contravention before it becomes legally effective but I still believe the Police have no role.

That said a charge of obstruction isn't going to be easily defended.


Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 06:33
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Slapdash
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 07:38
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QUOTE (Manc1)
as you can see clearly in the google maps i am not obstructing anyone.


Do you really believe that ? Your own photo looks pretty obstructive. Many legitimate users of the footway would be unable to pass unhindered. Quite a few with mobility issues probably unable to pass at all.

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southpaw82
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 10:35
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Moved and opaque thread title changed.


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NewJudge
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 12:15
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QUOTE (Manc1 @ Sat, 8 Aug 2020 - 22:53) *
as you can see clearly in the google maps i am not obstructing anyone.

I assume you mean you were not obstructing the driveway nearby. But, as said, your car was obstructing about half of the footway.

Where I live there is a severely disabled lady who uses a very large supportive wheelchair which is probably over a metre wide. She would have no chance of passing your car (and often has no chance of passing cars parked partially on the pavement where she lives). It makes life extremely difficult for her and her carers and that's what is meant by "obstruction".

If you have any intention of disputing this I would not use your photos as evidence if I were you.

This post has been edited by NewJudge: Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 12:17
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Manc1
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 12:47
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Thanks for the update everone.

I will wait for safer roads partnership to contact me.

What would be the fine in these kind obstruction offences? £30??

Also quick question can someone enlight me please - where i live all residents park their cars parallel with the carriageway outside their houses obstructing about half of the footway and there will be little space for 1 or 2 persons to pass throgh. I never seen traffic warden or police issues tickets. Is the same applied here on this street or is it different scenario?

Thanks in advance.
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 13:03
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Outside of London parking on the footway is not prohibited unless there are signs in place prohibiting it. I civil enforcement officer could not give you a PCN for doing so . The police however are looking at the criminal offence of obstruction, this could be of the footpath or the carriageway It is their opinion and as with speeding, using a mobile of other traffic offences there are a variety of options open to them as to how to deal with it


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AntoniC
post Sun, 9 Aug 2020 - 14:55
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This is fairly local to me.

Where the car was parked is near to Formby Pinewoods.

Sefton Council and Merseyside Police have been running a campaign warning drivers not to park inconsiderately because on nice days (like yesterday and today) visitors to the area have been parking their cars anywhere they can, once the legit car parks are full and the locals have been complaining.

Also on the way into Formby on the A565 there are dot matrix displays advising that car parking spaces are limited.
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Manc1
post Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 22:14
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Hi All,
Its been a week now since i got the FPN for obstruction and i havent received any more information by post. How long it will take for them to send more details generally in this kind of offence?

Can i just wait till i get more details form Merseyside Police about the FPN?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Manc1: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 22:14
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andy_foster
post Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 22:23
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You have a TOR (contrary to what the amended thread title states). The TOR says that you should not do anything until you hear from them. How best would you like us to clarify that instruction?


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Manc1
post Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 22:44
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 23:23) *
You have a TOR (contrary to what the amended thread title states). The TOR says that you should not do anything until you hear from them. How best would you like us to clarify that instruction?



Thanks for the reply.

Just checking how long do they generally takes in this kind off offences to send further details. I am also worried that if it will cost me 3 points on my license.
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Rallyman72
post Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 07:55
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QUOTE (Manc1 @ Sun, 16 Aug 2020 - 23:44) *
Just checking how long do they generally takes in this kind off offences to send further details. I am also worried that if it will cost me 3 points on my license.


Three bits of legislation cover obstruction of the highway. The main one answering your question is from the Highways Act 1980.

QUOTE
Highways Act 1980

Obstruction of highways and streets

Section 137 Penalty for wilful obstruction

(1)If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding £50.


There is also the Road Traffic Act 1988 as modified by the Road Traffic Act 1991

QUOTE
Road Traffic Act 1988

Leaving vehicles in dangerous positions.

If a person in charge of a vehicle causes or permits the vehicle or a trailer drawn by it to remain at rest on a road in such a position or in such condition or in such circumstances as to [involve a danger of injury] to other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.


And, finally, Construction and Use Regulations also speak out on the matter.

QUOTE
The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

Section 103. No person in charge of a motor vehicle or trailer shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction of the road.


All of these requirements are also, effectively, paraphrased in Rule 244 of the Highway Code when it comes to pavement parking. Mind you, in many residential streets, pavement parking is almost inevitable due to the lack of off road parking and the rise in car ownership.

No mention there of penalty points so the answer is it won't 'cost' you points.

This post has been edited by Rallyman72: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 07:55


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cp8759
post Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 08:05
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To be honest if the police want to do anything their best option is section 72 of the Highways Act 1835, as it is almost impossible to defend.


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Manc1
post Mon, 17 Aug 2020 - 09:25
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Many thanks both for the info.

I will wait for further details from Merseyside Police and update on here.

Regards.
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