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Vehicle abandonned on private land
babyreecesdaddy
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 14:28
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Hi all,

Asking for a neighbour as I frequent these pages.

We have an underground car park to where each property is allocated a space in the deeds.

A car has since become abandoned for over a month now in my neighbour's space and she is wondering what can be done - She now has to pay to park outside the car park on a daily basis as no other spaces are avail.

The vehicle is quite old and we were concerned that it had possibly been stolen and dumped, however the police obviously aren't interested.

I've heard suggestions of 'number 63 going to tie a rope to his car and drag it out' and so forth but I'm querying the implications of this.

The vehicle is a patchwork quilt with a lot of damage and has not moved within the past month. We do not have any parking operator and the only restrictions are you can only enter the car park via two key fob rollers.

The LL isn't interested either as they are skint and certainly will not pay for any action, there are no parking signs and so forth in the location.

Thanks
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post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 14:28
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StuartBu
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 14:53
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Does it have a number plate attached.. You can get reg keeper details from DVLA in certain circs so your neighbour could try that.. Costs a couple of quid .
If it was to suddenly find itself out on the street I guess the Council would need to deal with it. :-)
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babyreecesdaddy
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 14:57
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Getting it out might be tricky........up hill and very tight.

It's got a plate and I checked the MIB last night, it's got tax.....just a little strange.
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Lynnzer
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 15:08
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Well you certainly can't clamp and removal is unlawful too. Problem with PoFA is that it's set up for the PPC's not the average Joe.
If you can obtain the registered keeper details your neighbour could action a claim for damages for trespass.
The fact that it's costing her to park on the road is fact of that. She could claim for the accrued amounts to the date it's removed from the space, plus the costs of bringing the case. Perhaps also an amount of interest plus any fees paid to the DVLA etc.
A simple money claim online would suffice.

2nd thoughts.
I believe that if the car has a notice attached to it for a sufficient length of time advising of it's impending removal you can have it towed if there's no response. This would of course result in other charges but in all of these they would be reclaimable. Not 100% on this and time's short to Google it but others will verify if it's right.
Try this

This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 15:16


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EDW
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 15:15
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QUOTE (babyreecesdaddy @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 14:28) *
Hi all,

Asking for a neighbour as I frequent these pages.

We have an underground car park to where each property is allocated a space in the deeds.

A car has since become abandoned for over a month now in my neighbour's space and she is wondering what can be done - She now has to pay to park outside the car park on a daily basis as no other spaces are avail.

The vehicle is quite old and we were concerned that it had possibly been stolen and dumped, however the police obviously aren't interested.

I've heard suggestions of 'number 63 going to tie a rope to his car and drag it out' and so forth but I'm querying the implications of this.

The vehicle is a patchwork quilt with a lot of damage and has not moved within the past month. We do not have any parking operator and the only restrictions are you can only enter the car park via two key fob rollers.

The LL isn't interested either as they are skint and certainly will not pay for any action, there are no parking signs and so forth in the location.

Thanks




Phone the council and report it abandoned. They have the power to remove vehicles under RTRA
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hcandersen
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 15:47
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But no duty, so be prepared for them to say no.

How old is the car?

Is the parking space within the lease as part of the demised premises. If so, then as I understand it, you have the lawful authority to remove as it has been left on your property without permission.

Contact a local scrap yard - what would they pay/charge to collect and dispose?
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peterguk
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 16:07
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 15:47) *
Contact a local scrap yard - what would they pay/charge to collect and dispose?


A scrap yard should not (must not?) accept a car without a V5.


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EDW
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 16:17
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https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q441.htm
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Aretnap
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 17:46
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Councils do have a duty to remove abandoned vehciles even from private land - but only land which is "in the open air". That would tend to rule out an underground car park.
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EDW
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 17:53
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QUOTE (Aretnap @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 17:46) *
Councils do have a duty to remove abandoned vehciles even from private land - but only land which is "in the open air". That would tend to rule out an underground car park.



think you are wrong there. What's your source?
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bama
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 18:00
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at a guess...
in the link that you quoted


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Aretnap
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 18:27
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QUOTE (EDW @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 17:53) *
QUOTE (Aretnap @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 17:46) *
Councils do have a duty to remove abandoned vehicles even from private land - but only land which is "in the open air". That would tend to rule out an underground car park.

think you are wrong there. What's your source?

Click the link. Sorry if that was a bit cryptic.
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EDW
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 18:35
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on a road, or other land , in such a position or in such condition or in suc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


so 'open air' has gone.

This post has been edited by EDW: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 19:10
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ford poplar
post Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 19:08
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These days I would expect Police to be interested in a 'suspicious' vehicle in an underground car park. Could have been reported lost or stolen, or left in a secluded place after or prior to commission of a crime?

Otherwise obtain owner/RK details from DVLA and issue claim. Neighbour (land-owner) seems to have sufficient pre-estimate of cost it e alt pqrking and removal costs

What does neighbour want to achieve?

This post has been edited by ford poplar: Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 19:10
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Aretnap
post Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 10:59
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QUOTE (EDW @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 18:35) *
on a road, or other land , in such a position or in such condition or in suc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

so 'open air' has gone.

Erm... are we seeing the same version?
QUOTE
Where it appears to a local authority that a motor vehicle in their area is abandoned without lawful authority on any land in the open air or on any other land forming part of a highway road, it shall be the duty of the authority, subject to the following provisions of this section, to remove the vehicle.

There have been various amendments over the years, but I can't find any which change the basic wording of subsection 1. This fairly recent DEFRA guidance also makes reference to "the open air".
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baconrasher
post Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 13:55
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QUOTE (babyreecesdaddy @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 14:28) *
Hi all,

Asking for a neighbour as I frequent these pages.

We have an underground car park to where each property is allocated a space in the deeds.

A car has since become abandoned for over a month now in my neighbour's space and she is wondering what can be done - She now has to pay to park outside the car park on a daily basis as no other spaces are avail.

The vehicle is quite old and we were concerned that it had possibly been stolen and dumped, however the police obviously aren't interested.

I've heard suggestions of 'number 63 going to tie a rope to his car and drag it out' and so forth but I'm querying the implications of this.

The vehicle is a patchwork quilt with a lot of damage and has not moved within the past month. We do not have any parking operator and the only restrictions are you can only enter the car park via two key fob rollers.

The LL isn't interested either as they are skint and certainly will not pay for any action, there are no parking signs and so forth in the location.

Thanks


I posted on here with a very similar question a few weeks ago: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=84534

We put a notice on the car stating that the owner was trespassing on private property and that we would have the vehicle removed after 7 days and recover costs through the county court. We also notified the vehicle as abandoned to the police (completely uninterested) and the council - it was not taxed.

The vehicle was moved within 2 days to another space in the same car park.

Incidentally, my post was moved from this forum by the moderator for some reason - interested to note that yours was not!

Bacon
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EDW
post Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 13:57
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QUOTE (Aretnap @ Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 10:59) *
QUOTE (EDW @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 18:35) *
on a road, or other land , in such a position or in such condition or in suc,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

so 'open air' has gone.

Erm... are we seeing the same version?
QUOTE
Where it appears to a local authority that a motor vehicle in their area is abandoned without lawful authority on any land in the open air or on any other land forming part of a highway road, it shall be the duty of the authority, subject to the following provisions of this section, to remove the vehicle.

There have been various amendments over the years, but I can't find any which change the basic wording of subsection 1. This fairly recent DEFRA guidance also makes reference to "the open air".



Read POFA.
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Aretnap
post Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 18:40
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The anti-towing provisions in POFA are irrelevant as the council have lawful authority (nay, a duty) to remove abandoned vehicles, as provided by the 1978 Act.
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fhd
post Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 18:54
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If you need a key fob to gain access to the car park then that kind of points to one of the other neighbours being responsible for it being there. I would post a letter through each of the neighbours doors demanding it is moved as it is on your friends property and he is being inconvenienced by having to pay to park elsewhere. I am surprised he has put up with it for a month, I would have been banging on doors after one day.
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andy_foster
post Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 20:43
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QUOTE (Lynnzer @ Sat, 23 Nov 2013 - 15:08) *
Well you certainly can't clamp


Not only would it constitute a criminal offence, it would prevent the vehicle being removed from the OP's neighbour's space.

QUOTE
and removal is unlawful too.


On what grounds. Removing and subsequently holding for ransom is a criminal offence as you are immobilising it without lawful authority. Simply removing and not immobilising it is not immobilising it.

QUOTE (baconrasher @ Sun, 24 Nov 2013 - 13:55) *
Incidentally, my post was moved from this forum by the moderator for some reason - interested to note that yours was not!


Yours was moved as it was in the wrong forum. This has not been moved yet.


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