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VCS, office car park, no valid permit
gac
post Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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The driver has a parking "document" (which states it is not a PCN) from VCS which was left on their windscreen after the car was parked in the car park of a currently unoccupied office building on a business park. The "offence" is "Not displaying a valid permit" but there are currently no occupants to get a permit from, and no property owners contact details, only the letting agents.

Anything the driver/keeper can do here to appeal? It's the standard £60 within 14 days, £100 otherwise. There is no NtK yet there was just a red square piece of paper left on the car with a reference number on the back to look at the offence online, and then the rest follows in the post in a day or so. When it arrives, I'll redact and upload if required.

Thanks for any pointers.

This post has been edited by gac: Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 11:28
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post Wed, 28 Nov 2018 - 18:52
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gac
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 21:06
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Update...

I did send another email to be able to prove that I was making an effort, and sadly got a response this time saying they're "looking into it". So I hope soon to have some confirmation on which avenue they're taking (PoFA vs Elliot/Loake) and whether they have any evidence of the driver. However I've realised that due to the date I filled out the Acknowledgement of Service, when the defence is due I will be away from home with work so I want to get the defence done slightly earlier so that I can't get caught out by something silly like having no Internet access or no access to the paperwork.

My planned defence is here: https://pastebin.com/M68FfvgJ

If I get a response to my request for information in time, I'll remove 6a/6b as appropriate, otherwise I feel like I need to offer a defence against both. It probably won't be relevant, but I went to the site in question to get some pictures of the lack of entrance signage, and at some point between the date of the alleged offence and the arrival of the claim form, the sign has been removed from the front of the building as well. It's present on the NtK though so probably won't count for much other than some negligence maintaining the site?

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate hearing them, thank you
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henrik777
post Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 21:25
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QUOTE (gac @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 22:06) *
Update...

I did send another email to be able to prove that I was making an effort, and sadly got a response this time saying they're "looking into it". So I hope soon to have some confirmation on which avenue they're taking (PoFA vs Elliot/Loake) and whether they have any evidence of the driver. However I've realised that due to the date I filled out the Acknowledgement of Service, when the defence is due I will be away from home with work so I want to get the defence done slightly earlier so that I can't get caught out by something silly like having no Internet access or no access to the paperwork.

My planned defence is here: https://pastebin.com/M68FfvgJ

If I get a response to my request for information in time, I'll remove 6a/6b as appropriate, otherwise I feel like I need to offer a defence against both. It probably won't be relevant, but I went to the site in question to get some pictures of the lack of entrance signage, and at some point between the date of the alleged offence and the arrival of the claim form, the sign has been removed from the front of the building as well. It's present on the NtK though so probably won't count for much other than some negligence maintaining the site?

If anyone has any thoughts, I'd appreciate hearing them, thank you



Well if they're "looking in to it" ask for an extension to the period for filing your defence.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...les/part15#15.5
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gac
post Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 09:15
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QUOTE (henrik777 @ Wed, 5 Jun 2019 - 22:25) *
Well if they're "looking in to it" ask for an extension to the period for filing your defence.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure...les/part15#15.5

I thought about that, but ideally I'd just like it done now. Most of the defence (forbidding signage and lack of contract being the key one, also unreasonable behaviour in not following the pre-action protocols) doesn't really depend on which avenue they pursue. I'd be quite happy to just get on with it and work out what the next step is, then if the court decides in their favour just to get it paid and get the judgement removed ASAP so I can pretend it never happened. Although obviously having VCS withdraw or the court strike it off would be perfect. It wasn't stressing me until I got the claim form and figured out how seriously they were taking it, now it's got that far I'd really rather just get to the end of the whole process and draw a line under it.
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gac
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 07:56
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I have slightly changed the wording of my intended online defence: https://pastebin.com/M68FfvgJ

If anyone has any feedback I'd appreciate that, I intend to send this in via MCOL in the next day or two. As I explained above, the lack of response from VCS may be grounds to apply for an extension but since the main point is that the signage is not adequate to form a contract that isn't going to change with any of the information I asked VCS for anyway. I'd rather just get it submitted so it isn't playing on my mind while I'm out of the country next week (during which the 33 days from issue actually ends).

Thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:15
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You will NOT send it in using MCOL

Sign a PDF and EMAIL that to the courts. Then you know that your defence is exactly as you presented it and not mangled by MCOL.

You wil not get an extnesion to filing your defence

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:15
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gac
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:32
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 12:15) *
You will NOT send it in using MCOL

Sign a PDF and EMAIL that to the courts. Then you know that your defence is exactly as you presented it and not mangled by MCOL.

OK, I'll do that instead. Do I need to do anything in the online portal to tell them the defence was submitted via email? Is the correct email address ccbcaq@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk with the claim number in the subject line? If I'm emailing rather than submitting through MCOL, would it be appropriate to take this opportunity to attach the photo evidence that there are no entrance signs on the site?

QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 12:15) *
You wil not get an extnesion to filing your defence

A poster above suggested asking for one, pending a response from VCS about further details in the absence of a Letter of Claim, I don't actually want an extension.
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Redivi
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:39
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Would it be appropriate to take this opportunity to attach the photo evidence that there are no entrance signs on the site?

No

You don't send any evidence until the court tells you to

It's not required until two weeks before the hearing and you delay sending it as long as possible
You want to see what VCS is submitting and take advantage of any inaccuracies when you submit your evidence and witness statement
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 11 Jun 2019 - 11:59
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You dont "ask",the CCBC will just tell you to apply. You do nothing in MCOL at all. Nothing. That email looks right to me.

You must must must read up on what you do and when. The NEWBIES thread on the MSE PARKING FORUM (google it) , post 2 in that thread, has a "what happens when" section. You must read and understand this, and bookmark it. All quesitons on process are handled there already.
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