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Illegal Registration Plate, VRM not conforming
creesteN
post Thu, 16 Mar 2017 - 16:44
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Good Afternoon,

I have recently received a traffic offence report for the reason of offence code 400, VRM not conforming. Let me explain the situation first:

  • I have arrived at a council, public access, free to use (at that time of the day) car park. I met my friend there and parked beside him. The place was known for various car meets which have been shut down by the local police and council. No event was happening that evening. With only me, and my friend being there in the other car, we have been chatting outside our cars for a few minutes. Two foot police show up; they write our registration down. I question it, they say they have no issue with us, it's only for the record if there is any antisocial behaviour. They told us we can stay.
  • 10 minutes later, a marked police car shows up, tells us to leave with no discussions as there is a dispersal order in place. I ask if I can repark my car on the other side of the car park and stay on foot, go across the road to a shop, etc. They immediately get out and look for a reason to fine me.


I then receive a telling off about my license plate as the other officer looks for more issues (finds none). I get told to get in the car and present my ID. When I question the officer as to why I'm getting the ticket, I get the response: "VRM not conforming". I ask him to be more specific, he says - I have no stamps with BS, postcodes, etc. I tell him to check again, he comes back telling me they're not visible. I tell him they don't have to be. He then adds onto that telling me the material is not reflective (it is, I have photos of the light bouncing straight into my camera), the letters are not smooth (they are pressed), and the position is not in the middle.

I have not argued about the letters as I wasn't sure. I checked the rules, I can't see anything prohibiting it. Position, I argued, mentioning the plates on Alfa Romeo. His reason was 'it's legal because it's standard, your car doesn't come like that'. I'm not satisfied and waiting for correspondence to come from police now.

What should my course of action be? I can send photographs if required.

Thanks!

This post has been edited by creesteN: Thu, 16 Mar 2017 - 16:46
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post Thu, 16 Mar 2017 - 16:44
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peterguk
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 21:47
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QUOTE (creesteN @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 21:21) *
QUOTE (NewJudge @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 20:29) *
QUOTE (creesteN @ Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 19:04) *
Considering they havent measured out the visibility area at all and say I have and bring a photo of the car from distance in court, I reckon I could convince the magistrates about this anyway


It's not quite as simple as looking at the car from a distance. I think the issue was discussed in your thread round about the middle of March so you are aware of the regs which describe a rectangle drawn in front of the car where the number plate must be visible from every point within it. I think you should investigate those regs carefully because at a cursory glance I think you would struggle to meet the requirements. But, of course, it's up to you!


Sorry, I should have phrased my sentence better. The rectangle measurements is what I meant by a photo from distance. I was 100% sure the police officer made no measurements so once again it was a case of whatever evidence I provide against none of his.


But that doesn't stop them choosing to do some measurements in the future. Hopefully your choice to be different won't result in more attention of the negative kind, although when you attract attention you can't always choose whether it's the attention you desire..


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NewJudge
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 22:47
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Yes I was thinking of a future pull rather than the previous one to which this thread refers.
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creesteN
post Mon, 6 Nov 2017 - 23:56
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Considering my plate is damaged and I have a new one (also metal, pressed) ready to be fitted, I will place it elsewhere in a less "aggressive" location.

Once again many thanks guys. You not only saved my situation completely but also prepared me for future encounters of this kind.
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Churchmouse
post Tue, 7 Nov 2017 - 13:25
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Congratulations! Unfortunately, despite the law and the facts (as far as I could tell) being on your side, there is no "sure thing" in a courtroom situation. You stood up for yourself and fought well, so in addition to the win, you now know a bit more about the system and won't be intimidated by it in the future.

--Churchmouse
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creesteN
post Tue, 7 Nov 2017 - 16:41
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Tue, 7 Nov 2017 - 14:25) *
Congratulations! Unfortunately, despite the law and the facts (as far as I could tell) being on your side, there is no "sure thing" in a courtroom situation. You stood up for yourself and fought well, so in addition to the win, you now know a bit more about the system and won't be intimidated by it in the future.

--Churchmouse


Once again, many thanks to you as well as many others for some of the great advice I received here. Hopefully I'll be able to pass it on.
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baroudeur
post Wed, 8 Nov 2017 - 16:44
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QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 4 Nov 2017 - 21:07) *
No, it just means that paragraph 11 of the regulations does not apply. By the way, congratulations. sad.gif You've managed to exceed your usual standard of error by being completely wrong twice in the same thread regarding the same paragraph of the Regulations.

--Churchmouse


I've been offline for a few days and just seen your very encouraging comments. unsure.gif

I believe that pressed/cast characters are permitted and was trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to support that view by quoting from the legislation in post 259. This was challenged as referring only to pre 2001 plates presumably because para 10d and 10e are linked by the "and" at the end of 10d.

My reply in post 285 was intended to imply that IF that if that was so then pressed/cast characters are not permitted on vehicles registered since 2001. Unfortunately, this was misinterpreted because of my poor wording.








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Churchmouse
post Wed, 8 Nov 2017 - 21:37
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Wed, 8 Nov 2017 - 16:44) *
QUOTE (Churchmouse @ Sat, 4 Nov 2017 - 21:07) *
No, it just means that paragraph 11 of the regulations does not apply. By the way, congratulations. sad.gif You've managed to exceed your usual standard of error by being completely wrong twice in the same thread regarding the same paragraph of the Regulations.

--Churchmouse


I've been offline for a few days and just seen your very encouraging comments. unsure.gif

I believe that pressed/cast characters are permitted and was trying, unsuccessfully it seems, to support that view by quoting from the legislation in post 259. This was challenged as referring only to pre 2001 plates presumably because para 10d and 10e are linked by the "and" at the end of 10d.

My reply in post 285 was intended to imply that IF that if that was so then pressed/cast characters are not permitted on vehicles registered since 2001. Unfortunately, this was misinterpreted because of my poor wording.

I was trying to "encourage" you to desist from whatever it is you thought you were doing with these comments in an active criminal case thread. I'm sorry if you considered my response harsh, but when the OP is in the midst of preparing for an imminent court appearance, in my view, it is not helpful to engage in uninformed, last-minute speculation about the (already clear) meaning of the relevant legislation. The section of the RV (DRM) Regulations 2001 you found so fascinating was clearly referring to pre-1973 black and silver number plates and related ONLY to the spacing between the characters on that particular style of number plate. That some specific requirements apply to a different style of plate on a pre-1973 vehicle had no bearing whatsoever on the OP's situation.

--Churchmouse
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